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SEISMIC DETAILING FOR CIRCULAR COLUMNS

 
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surendra
SEFI Member
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Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 8
Location: Chennai

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 12:46 pm    Post subject: SEISMIC DETAILING FOR CIRCULAR COLUMNS Reply with quote

Dear friends,


For circular columns there is no provision as per IS : 13920 (for seismic detailing)
Providing outer tie as per IS: 456 is sufficient for seismic detailing? or any special precautions are required ?


Please clarify

Thanking you,


SURENDRA BABU .J
Assistant Engineering Manager,
EDRC,
L&T - ECC,
Manapakkam,
Mount poonamalle high road,
Chennai - 600 089



PS : Dr. Jain - Requested for your kind comments please

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sdec.in
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Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 473

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:26 pm    Post subject: SEISMIC DETAILING FOR CIRCULAR COLUMNS Reply with quote

No its not adequate esp for large sections and in absence of any codal
provisions, we have been providing ties along the diameter tying
alternate bars; or else giving sq or rectang. Stirrups as per normal
guidelines for rect or sq sections.
sangeeta

-----Original Message-----
Message From  surendra@lntecc.com [mailto:surendra@lntecc.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 6:44 PM
To: sdec@bol.net.in
Subject: SEISMIC DETAILING FOR CIRCULAR COLUMNS

Dear friends,


For circular columns there is no provision as per IS : 13920 (for
seismic detailing)
Providing outer tie as per IS: 456 is sufficient for seismic detailing?
or any special precautions are required ?


Please clarify

Thanking you,


SURENDRA BABU .J
Assistant Engineering Manager,
EDRC,
L&T - ECC,
Manapakkam,
Mount poonamalle high road,
Chennai - 600 089



PS : Dr. Jain - Requested for your kind comments please

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ishacon1
...
...


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 12:06 am    Post subject: SEISMIC DETAILING FOR CIRCULAR COLUMNS Reply with quote

I have a difference of opinion.

It may be interesting to note that even in ACI, there is no provison of
adding square or rectangular ties for circular columns, may it be a large
sized column. I believe that even AASHO has no such provisions for their
design detailing of circular columns.

If the practice has changed in recent times, then I would stand corrected.
Maybe Mr. Ashwin Rangaswamy P.E. can throw more light on this issue from
USA.
or Mr. James Cohen, P.E.

V.P.Agarwal
ishacon@vsnl.net

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mc.upadhyay1
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Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 134

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:14 am    Post subject: SEISMIC DETAILING FOR CIRCULAR COLUMNS Reply with quote

Hello Mr. Surendra
I hope that you have not seen IS 13920.
Section 7 of IS 13920 is applicable to both rectangular &
circular columns.
There is a formula to calculate the area of special confining
reinforcement as per 7.4.7 for circular columns. and
there is a solved example of circular column after this
formula. So what do you want?.....................

Stating such statements (no provision as per IS : 13920 (for seismic
detailing))
cannot be expected from Asst. Manager of a such a big company (L&T).

Regards

Mukesh Upadhyay




surendra@lntecc.                                                                                                
com                      To:      mc.upadhyay@jil.co.in                                                          
cc:                                                                                    
09/30/04 06:50           Subject: SEISMIC DETAILING FOR CIRCULAR COLUMNS                                  
PM                                                                                                              
Please respond                                                                                                  
to general                                                                                                      





Dear friends,


For circular columns there is no provision as per IS : 13920 (for seismic
detailing)
Providing outer tie as per IS: 456 is sufficient for seismic detailing? or
any special precautions are required ?


Please clarify

Thanking you,


SURENDRA BABU .J
Assistant Engineering Manager,
EDRC,
L&T - ECC,
Manapakkam,
Mount poonamalle high road,
Chennai - 600 089



PS : Dr. Jain - Requested for your kind comments please

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sdec.in
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Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 473

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:15 am    Post subject: SEISMIC DETAILING FOR CIRCULAR COLUMNS Reply with quote

Mr Upadhyay,
H'e referred to the way the steel should be provided---is an outer hoop
enough or internal tying(as suggested by me and practiced by us in our
office) should be followed?What we do is either we give rect or sq.
stirrups or tie the alternate bars using diametrical open ties.
Regards
Sangeeta

-----Original Message-----
Message From  mc.upadhyay@jil.co.in [mailto:mc.upadhyay@jil.co.in]
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 3:54 PM
To: sdec@bol.net.in
Subject: SEISMIC DETAILING FOR CIRCULAR COLUMNS

Hello Mr. Surendra
I hope that you have not seen IS 13920.
Section 7 of IS 13920 is applicable to both rectangular &
circular columns.
There is a formula to calculate the area of special confining
reinforcement as per 7.4.7 for circular columns. and
there is a solved example of circular column after this
formula. So what do you want?.....................

Stating such statements (no provision as per IS : 13920 (for seismic
detailing))
cannot be expected from Asst. Manager of a such a big company (L&T).

Regards

Mukesh Upadhyay





surendra@lntecc.

com                      To:
mc.upadhyay@jil.co.in

cc:

09/30/04 06:50           Subject: SEISMIC
DETAILING FOR CIRCULAR COLUMNS                                  
PM

Please respond

to general








Dear friends,


For circular columns there is no provision as per IS : 13920 (for
seismic
detailing)
Providing outer tie as per IS: 456 is sufficient for seismic detailing?
or
any special precautions are required ?


Please clarify

Thanking you,


SURENDRA BABU .J
Assistant Engineering Manager,
EDRC,
L&T - ECC,
Manapakkam,
Mount poonamalle high road,
Chennai - 600 089



PS : Dr. Jain - Requested for your kind comments please

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surendra
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 8
Location: Chennai

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:16 am    Post subject: SEISMIC DETAILING FOR CIRCULAR COLUMNS Reply with quote

Dear Mr. Mukesh Upadhyay,

My question is

Is it required to provide cross ties in circular column or not ?  

We provide cross ties in square or rectangular column for 300c/c(maximum allowable spacing)as shown in figure 7.B and 7.C of IS 13920:1993. But for circular columns code does not specify any special clause.

For circular columns we can follow similar conceptual procedure stated as per IS:13920:1993 (But just i need any proof in any other code or book). But placing of stirrups is also difficult. Especially following clause 7.C where when width exceeds 300mm we have to provide overlapping hoops. It is difficult for site to do?

So just i want to how people are practicing...

Regards,

SURENDRA BABU .J
Assistant Engineering Manager,
EDRC,
L&T - ECC,
Manapakkam,
Mount poonamalle high road,
Chennai - 600 089

PS : My posting in SEFI is not to dishonour/comment IS 13920.

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mc.upadhyay1
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...


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 134

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 6:27 am    Post subject: SEISMIC DETAILING FOR CIRCULAR COLUMNS Reply with quote

Hello
the circular hoop is subjected to  tension by expanding
concrete; hence it provides continuous support to all the longitudinal bars
along the hoop & the core concrete.
So it is not useless to provide the cross tie in circular columns.

Regards

Mukesh Upadhyay




surendra@lntecc.                                                                                                
com                      To:      mc.upadhyay@jil.co.in                                                          
cc:                                                                                    
10/05/04 09:50           Subject: SEISMIC DETAILING FOR CIRCULAR COLUMNS                                  
AM                                                                                                              
Please respond                                                                                                  
to general                                                                                                      





Dear Mr. Mukesh Upadhyay,

My question is

Is it required to provide cross ties in circular column or not ?

We provide cross ties in square or rectangular column for 300c/c(maximum
allowable spacing)as shown in figure 7.B and 7.C of IS 13920:1993. But for
circular columns code does not specify any special clause.

For circular columns we can follow similar conceptual procedure stated as
per IS:13920:1993 (But just i need any proof in any other code or book).
But placing of stirrups is also difficult. Especially following clause 7.C
where when width exceeds 300mm we have to provide overlapping hoops. It is
difficult for site to do?

So just i want to how people are practicing...

Regards,

SURENDRA BABU .J
Assistant Engineering Manager,
EDRC,
L&T - ECC,
Manapakkam,
Mount poonamalle high road,
Chennai - 600 089

PS : My posting in SEFI is not to dishonour/comment IS 13920.

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acpl_sefi
...
...


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 5:52 pm    Post subject: SEISMIC DETAILING FOR CIRCULAR COLUMNS Reply with quote

Once discussions at IIT Delhi revealed the cross tie helps substantially. They may tests to substantiate that claim. It must not be written off whimsically.

Though ACI may be a good source. From what I recollect it only allows spirals for circular columns confining reinforcement (about 2" max pitch)--which are known to be extremely effective. 

Vipul Ahuja


On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 mc.upadhyay@jil.co.in wrote :
Hello
the circular hoop is subjected to  tension by expanding
concrete; hence it provides continuous support to all the longitudinal bars
along the hoop & the core concrete.
So it is not useless to provide the cross tie in circular columns.

Regards

Mukesh Upadhyay




surendra@lntecc.
com                      To:      mc.upadhyay@jil.co.in
cc:
10/05/04 09:50           Subject: SEISMIC DETAILING FOR CIRCULAR COLUMNS
AM
Please respond
to general





Dear Mr. Mukesh Upadhyay,

My question is

Is it required to provide cross ties in circular column or not ?

We provide cross ties in square or rectangular column for 300c/c(maximum
allowable spacing)as shown in figure 7.B and 7.C of IS 13920:1993. But for
circular columns code does not specify any special clause.

For circular columns we can follow similar conceptual procedure stated as
per IS:13920:1993 (But just i need any proof in any other code or book).
But placing of stirrups is also difficult. Especially following clause 7.C
where when width exceeds 300mm we have to provide overlapping hoops. It is
difficult for site to do?

So just i want to how people are practicing...

Regards,

SURENDRA BABU .J
Assistant Engineering Manager,
EDRC,
L&T - ECC,
Manapakkam,
Mount poonamalle high road,
Chennai - 600 089

PS : My posting in SEFI is not to dishonour/comment IS 13920.




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