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This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    www.sefindia.org Forum Index -> Past Discussions Year 2004
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JVCSNL
...
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Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 159

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:27 am    Post subject: construction Reply with quote

Dear All,

In this connection, the reaction from the owner of building is given in
TOI as under.

"The project was a turnkey assignment given to a contractor on the
basis of approved plans. The construction work was being carried out,
headed by a contractor. The work was also being supervised by a
professional architect and structural engineer," said The Times of India
general manager RH Dhanani.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/916666.cms

This quote gives me feeling that there was sufficient supervision from
Professional Architect and Structural Engineer too.

I believe, in the times of festival season, the contractors tend to put
extra efforts in last days to achieve certain targets, and in that
process neglects few critical checks and measures.  I learned from the
electronic media that the building contractor is a well established and
reputed construction company and it is hard to believe that such tragedy
has occured.  I think it was purely a case of inadequate safety
measures.  

I doubt whether the HSE requirements/criteria has been properly
formulated in contracts and cascaded to all levels of engineering
endeavors.  And there shall be a strong legal system and proper
education on HSE aspects to all working manpower, such that the HSE is
fully implemented on all projects.  Atleast in the area of Safety, the
responsibility shall be of the owner as well as the manpower working on
such sites.  The manpower should be given basic safety items such as
safety shoes, eye glasses and helmet while working on such works to
minimise injuries and casualities.  We have to respect safety as the
most important aspect of construction activity and perform tasks with
zero casuality.

Regards,

Jignesh Chokshi


Disclaimer: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are intended
solely for the use of addressee(s) only and may contain confidential
and/or privileged information. Any view or opinion presented in the said
e-mail is solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent
those of L&T - Sargent & Lundy Limited. If you are not the addressee,
then this message is not intended for you and be advised that you have
received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination,
forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited.
In such case, please notify to the sender and delete the e-mail and any
attachments with it from your system immediately. Receipt of this e-mail
by you shall not give raise to any liability on the part of L&T -
Sargent & Lundy Limited.


Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
p_kadam_sefi@yahoo.co.in 09-11-2004 >>>




Dear all,

Should we insist for Structural Engineer to be associated with Civil
Contractor for site related Structural Engg. such as
centering/formwork/derrick design?

regards,

P Kadam

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skjain.iitk
General Sponsor
General Sponsor


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:52 am    Post subject: construction Reply with quote

Dear Jignesh:

The fact that there was adequate supervison system in place (structural
engineer, architects) and that there was a "well established"
construction company involved: makes me shiver. And that was the intent
of my original email. The two collapses I mentioned were not in
buildings being constructed by uneducated masons, but these buildings
were being done by professionals. This is in line with the fact that 130
multistorey buildings in Ahmedabad collapsed during January 2001
earthquake: all were done through professionals.

Two things cause concern to me:

a) If at least two such buildings collapsed in Ahmedabad in a years
time, there must be 20 to 50 buildings built in that city during this
period that did not collapse but were only marginally stable, that is,
were highly unsafe as per codes.These are time bombs.  And, Ahmedabad is
not alone: as Hari Kumar pointed out, several buildings in last few days
have collapsed in different cities in our country.

b) If this is the state of affairs regarding safety of buildings when
professionals are involved, what about the buildings where professionals
are not involved?

Clearly, we all need to wake up to the reality: we are fast becoming
redundant. As more and more people learn that our involvement does not
guarantee safety, they will tend to avoid us (and our fees will keep
going lower and lower...). The only way to handle this menace is to (a)
stop protecting our colleagues when they do not perform their job
professionally, and (b) to strive to do a good job ourselves.

Best regards,

Sudhir K Jain

It is common in our country

JVCSNL@ltecd.ltindia.com wrote:

Quote:
Dear All,

In this connection, the reaction from the owner of building is given in
TOI as under.

"The project was a turnkey assignment given to a contractor on the
basis of approved plans. The construction work was being carried out,
headed by a contractor. The work was also being supervised by a
professional architect and structural engineer," said The Times of India
general manager RH Dhanani.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/916666.cms

This quote gives me feeling that there was sufficient supervision from
Professional Architect and Structural Engineer too.

I believe, in the times of festival season, the contractors tend to put
extra efforts in last days to achieve certain targets, and in that
process neglects few critical checks and measures.  I learned from the
electronic media that the building contractor is a well established and
reputed construction company and it is hard to believe that such tragedy
has occured.  I think it was purely a case of inadequate safety
measures.  

I doubt whether the HSE requirements/criteria has been properly
formulated in contracts and cascaded to all levels of engineering
endeavors.  And there shall be a strong legal system and proper
education on HSE aspects to all working manpower, such that the HSE is
fully implemented on all projects.  Atleast in the area of Safety, the
responsibility shall be of the owner as well as the manpower working on
such sites.  The manpower should be given basic safety items such as
safety shoes, eye glasses and helmet while working on such works to
minimise injuries and casualities.  We have to respect safety as the
most important aspect of construction activity and perform tasks with
zero casuality.

Regards,

Jignesh Chokshi


Disclaimer: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are intended
solely for the use of addressee(s) only and may contain confidential
and/or privileged information. Any view or opinion presented in the said
e-mail is solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent
those of L&T - Sargent & Lundy Limited. If you are not the addressee,
then this message is not intended for you and be advised that you have
received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination,
forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited.
In such case, please notify to the sender and delete the e-mail and any
attachments with it from your system immediately. Receipt of this e-mail
by you shall not give raise to any liability on the part of L&T -
Sargent & Lundy Limited.




Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
p_kadam_sefi@yahoo.co.in 09-11-2004 >>>






Dear all,

Should we insist for Structural Engineer to be associated with Civil
Contractor for site related Structural Engg. such as
centering/formwork/derrick design?

regards,

P Kadam



















Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
skjain.iitk
General Sponsor
General Sponsor


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:44 pm    Post subject: construction Reply with quote

Dear Jignesh:

The fact that there was adequate supervison system in place (structural
engineer, architects) and that there was a "well established"
construction company involved: makes me shiver. And that was the intent
of my original email. The two collapses I mentioned were not in
buildings being constructed by uneducated masons, but these buildings
were being done by professionals. This is in line with the fact that 130
multistorey buildings in Ahmedabad collapsed during January 2001
earthquake: all were done through professionals.

Two things cause concern to me:

a) If at least two such buildings collapsed in Ahmedabad in a years
time, there must be 20 to 50 buildings built in that city during this
period that did not collapse but were only marginally stable, that is,
were highly unsafe as per codes.These are time bombs.  And, Ahmedabad is
not alone: as Hari Kumar pointed out, several buildings in last few days
have collapsed in different cities in our country.

b) If this is the state of affairs regarding safety of buildings when
professionals are involved, what about the buildings where professionals
are not involved?

Clearly, we all need to wake up to the reality: we are fast becoming
redundant. As more and more people learn that our involvement does not
guarantee safety, they will tend to avoid us (and our fees will keep
going lower and lower...). The only way to handle this menace is to (a)
stop protecting our colleagues when they do not perform their job
professionally, and (b) to strive to do a good job ourselves.

Best regards,

Sudhir K Jain

It is common in our country

JVCSNL@ltecd.ltindia.com wrote:

Quote:
Dear All,

In this connection, the reaction from the owner of building is given in
TOI as under.

"The project was a turnkey assignment given to a contractor on the
basis of approved plans. The construction work was being carried out,
headed by a contractor. The work was also being supervised by a
professional architect and structural engineer," said The Times of India
general manager RH Dhanani.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/916666.cms

This quote gives me feeling that there was sufficient supervision from
Professional Architect and Structural Engineer too.

I believe, in the times of festival season, the contractors tend to put
extra efforts in last days to achieve certain targets, and in that
process neglects few critical checks and measures.  I learned from the
electronic media that the building contractor is a well established and
reputed construction company and it is hard to believe that such tragedy
has occured.  I think it was purely a case of inadequate safety
measures.  

I doubt whether the HSE requirements/criteria has been properly
formulated in contracts and cascaded to all levels of engineering
endeavors.  And there shall be a strong legal system and proper
education on HSE aspects to all working manpower, such that the HSE is
fully implemented on all projects.  Atleast in the area of Safety, the
responsibility shall be of the owner as well as the manpower working on
such sites.  The manpower should be given basic safety items such as
safety shoes, eye glasses and helmet while working on such works to
minimise injuries and casualities.  We have to respect safety as the
most important aspect of construction activity and perform tasks with
zero casuality.

Regards,

Jignesh Chokshi


Disclaimer: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are intended
solely for the use of addressee(s) only and may contain confidential
and/or privileged information. Any view or opinion presented in the said
e-mail is solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent
those of L&T - Sargent & Lundy Limited. If you are not the addressee,
then this message is not intended for you and be advised that you have
received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination,
forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited.
In such case, please notify to the sender and delete the e-mail and any
attachments with it from your system immediately. Receipt of this e-mail
by you shall not give raise to any liability on the part of L&T -
Sargent & Lundy Limited.




Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
p_kadam_sefi@yahoo.co.in 09-11-2004 >>>






Dear all,

Should we insist for Structural Engineer to be associated with Civil
Contractor for site related Structural Engg. such as
centering/formwork/derrick design?

regards,

P Kadam



















Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
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