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Tamil Nadu Building Collapse- Query to Chennai Sefians...
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VPandya
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:04 pm    Post subject: Require Geotech. Report be Sign/Sealed by a Licensed Geot. Reply with quote

Dear Prof. K.A.Abu Baker,

You have raised a very important point.
  
Your satatement " Let SEFI move all state governments on this.".  I have work in USA with many Licensed Geotech. Engineer. Each project has Geotech. report Signed and Sealed by a Licensed Geotech.  or Licensed Professional Engineer. Not only that some cities  require that FINAL  FOUNDATION (Structural) DRAWINGS (Issued for Construction) submitted to City Building Depart. for building permit,  be Signed and Sealed by  the Licensed Geotech. Engineer. That is in addition to  Sign and Seal of a Licensed Structural Engineer on the same drawings.    

Short of such requirements of a Licensed Geotech. Engineer we can not resolve this issue. Any thing less will not do the job in my opinion.


Regards .

Vasudeo Pandya  P.E. ; S.E.
Structural Engineer.
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sikandarsiddiqi
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:31 pm    Post subject: Tamil Nadu Building Collapse- Query to Chennai Sefians... Reply with quote

IN GOD WE TRUSTPARDON,PROTECT & HELP US LORD, GOD GIVE US THE WISDOM TO UNDERSTAND YOUR WAY OF CREATION WHICH WE CALL SCIENCE,TO BE EXPERT NEEDS PRACTICE & SELF IMPROVEMENT, LETS PRAY FOR ALL THOSE WHO ARE SICK FOR EARLY RECOVERY & IN DISTRESS,HELP SOME ONE IN POVERTY LEVEL  Dear Colleagues & Others > Worldwide:

The Tamil Nadu government has set up a high powered technical special investigation team (SIT) to conduct a probe into collapse of the multi-storey building.
In a statement, Tamil Nadu chief minister J Jayalalithaa said the SIT would be monitored by the Chennai police commissioner and headed by a joint commissioner.
Tamil Nadu chief minister J Jayalalithaa has said the SIT would be monitored by the Chennai police commissioner and headed by a joint commissioner  There is a requirement of technical expertise to investigate this from engineering point of view,So the SIT will be taking technical assistance and related support from IIT, Anna University and other technical institutes.  The seven days rescue operation came to an end on Friday.   Although the building had proper approval the C.M. Jayalalithaa says "It appears the building did not adhere to the approved plan and it suffered from structural defects."   The commission will be headed by Justice R Regupathi, a retired judge of Madras high court. He will go into details that led to this incident and will recommend measures to prevent recurrence of such incidents in future.
The state government would take action based on the report of the inquiry commission.
Now with this much signing off.
God bless us all.Engr.Sikandar Hayat Siddiqi Director General & Principal Scientist,Earthquake & Tsunami Safety Management Initiative (ETASMI)/ Chief Technical Co-ordinator,ETASMI Data Center/Chief Executive Officer, ETASMI Information Service /Project & Seismic Design Management Consultant / Earthquake Public Awareness Consultant
Our Ref : ETASMI/TI/6th July'14 Dhaka  Bangladesh/Asia Radio Link International Email 12:28 AM Dhaka Time,Friday,11th July'14 + 6 Hours GMT
Try to watch english movie DVD/VCD ''Ten Comandments''.This is a super movie of epic dimension.U may like it and want to watch more than once.






On Tuesday, July 1, 2014 2:25 AM, v_peethambariah <forum@sefindia.org> wrote:  
           It is sad to hear the building has collapsed. I feel the snags may be from several angles right from inception of the building to construction faults. The other factor which influences the mishap is due to poor vision of the Builders and their eagerness to complete the building within limited time frame.    I have personally experienced while working with a reputed builder who had poor knowledge about the functionality of the design, evaluation and construction. Most of the builders needs civil engineers for the namesake and to show the authorities for meeting the requirements. The understanding of the sequence of construction for each of the personnel involved in construction team and the real estate owners may help in overcoming of such failures. Understanding of the basics of safety has to improve to a great extent in order to overcome the accidents.    As long as the builder, design team and construction personnel has the requisite knowledge about the buildings and functionality, these accidents recur now and then. There are several minor accidents occur frequently which goes unnoticed and the reports are made zero fatalities.   Regards Vivek       On Monday, 30 June 2014 4:44 AM, Dr. N. Subramanian wrote:                      alpa_sheth wrote:                Dear Chennai Sefians  Could you pl throw some light on the structural system in the collapsed Chennai Towers Faith and Belief?    Thanks much,   Alpa Sheth        Dear Er Alpa,  The structural engineer, builders and site engineers have been arrested. See the photos at http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/chennai/chennai-building-collapse-toll-rises-to-11/article6159812.ece?ref=relatedNews  By seeing the photos I feel that the building has not collapsed by lightening alone! It is a complete collapse of 11 storey building. I think that the builders have not done any soil investigations. Some have reported that the site is a lake bed. Due to the poor soil conditions, the foundation might have sunk and the building collapsed due to differential settlement. Anyway, we need to wait for the investigations to find the real cause.  As expressed by Er Gangadharan, any one can call himself as a structural engineer and builder. There should be some regulation for this.  Regards, Subramanian         --

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sonu khandelwal
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:31 pm    Post subject: Tamil Nadu Building Collapse- Query to Chennai Sefians... Reply with quote

It is really amazing to read and go through the expertise comments on all topics and yes we do learn a lot many things while discussions.We always blame a civil engineer for any collapse or any damage. But let us share this thought a civil engineer hand is many times tied to the hand of corruption and making profits.


Lets take an example a real estate project during inception is estimated at Rs. 100/-(Say). By the time it really starts kicking off the cost escalates to rs. 120 or say 130/-. Just to take clearances , in the name of liasoning we bribe each and every individual. Then the local goons ask for their share. Finally the sell price does not increase but the cost price or input price increases.


Even the fire approval people or the designated organisation while issuing Occupancy certificate need something in their pocket.


Ultimately profit is to be earned by cutting down designs and keeping people life at stack.







RegardsSonu Khandelwal
R.B.Construction
348/1,Jay durga nagar
Bhubaneswar
#9937321252, 0674-2575391




On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 1:07 PM, alpa_sheth <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           Dear Chennai Sefians

Could you pl throw some light on the structural system in the collapsed Chennai Towers Faith and Belief?


Thanks much,


Alpa Sheth
     



     



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gpsarathyy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Chennai building collapse, may be due to lack of tie beams which hold the building intact peripherally.
Structural detailing is very poor.
This has been recently noticed from the site visit.
Wind might have triggered the collapse - Metreological department says around 30 to 35m/sec wind gust was there at the time for short duration along with the storm.
still we are awaiting for the report from the committee to know the exact reason for failure.

Regards,
G.Parthasarathy
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Dr. N. Subramanian
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Er Parthasarathy,

I am not sure whether the 'official' report will give the exact reasons for the failure.  Tamilnadu  C.M. Ms. Jayalalithaa  has already said that "It appears the building did not adhere to the approved plan and it suffered from structural defects."  Hence the report will also toe that line. The Govt. wants to safeguard MMDA officials, who might have done some mistakes like giving sanction for a 11 storey building, which was originally planned as a six storey building. This is clearly evident from the width of road near the building, which is not suitable for a 11-storey building!

Because of safety the people near the buildings have been evacuated-some of these buildings have been damaged slightly as well as severely due to the impact of the failure. Who will pay for them? Also think about the fate of those who put their hard earned money in those two towers! Above all the suffering of 88 persons (61 died and 27 injured) and their families is unimaginable. Let us all Pray for their well being.

Regards,
NS

gpsarathyy wrote:
The Chennai building collapse, may be due to lack of tie beams which hold the building intact peripherally.
Structural detailing is very poor.
This has been recently noticed from the site visit.
Wind might have triggered the collapse - Metreological department says around 30 to 35m/sec wind gust was there at the time for short duration along with the storm.
still we are awaiting for the report from the committee to know the exact reason for failure.

Regards,
G.Parthasarathy
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gpsarathyy
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like in all foreign countries in India also it should be made mandate that all structural design to be checked and signed by a Professional Engineers (PE's). This will reduce and avoid this kind of poor designs.

Now the approving government bodies are checking only in the planning aspects and not in structural aspects.

Atleast now the government should wake up and take a preventive action by introducing PE's approval for structural design, to avoid the same kind of failures in future.

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G.PARTHASARATHY M.E. CEng(UK), MICE., MIE.,
CHENNAI
GPSARATHYY@GMAIL.COM
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SunilJaitley
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdshameer wrote:
Dear All,

I feel measures to prevent these mishaps are more important than the reasons of failure by investigation.

In any case, reasons of failure are not of academic importance, unless it throws insight on unknown aspects of structural mechanics or engineering management. Just to know whose fault it was, is not sensible. Whenever important findings regarding overloading or structural action or geological situations are made during a failure, the results of investigation are made public, in India, as well. There is no point in publicizing results that are someones errors - all are human after all.

To prevent mishaps, it is necessary that all local government bodies should make mandatory the submission of comprehensive structural design calculations and drawings, along with architectural approval drawings, duly checked by third party independent engineers. I do not know why this system is not adopted in India, unlike all forward looking countries.

Thanks
Shameer
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SunilJaitley
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:46 am    Post subject: Re: Require Geotech. Report be Sign/Sealed by a Licensed Ge Reply with quote

VPandya wrote:
Dear Prof. K.A.Abu Baker,

You have raised a very important point.
  
Your satatement " Let SEFI move all state governments on this.".  I have work in USA with many Licensed Geotech. Engineer. Each project has Geotech. report Signed and Sealed by a Licensed Geotech.  or Licensed Professional Engineer. Not only that some cities  require that FINAL  FOUNDATION (Structural) DRAWINGS (Issued for Construction) submitted to City Building Depart. for building permit,  be Signed and Sealed by  the Licensed Geotech. Engineer. That is in addition to  Sign and Seal of a Licensed Structural Engineer on the same drawings.    

Short of such requirements of a Licensed Geotech. Engineer we can not resolve this issue. Any thing less will not do the job in my opinion.


Regards .

Vasudeo Pandya  P.E. ; S.E.
Structural Engineer.
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Murali.Guruvappan
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:43 am    Post subject: Tamil Nadu Building Collapse- Query to Chennai Sefians... Reply with quote

Dear All,

Can you pleas share some photos (other than media ones') for this building collapse?

Regards
Murali



On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 1:06 AM, gpsarathyy <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           Like in all foreign countries in India also it should be made mandate that all structural design to be checked and signed by a Professional Engineers (PE's). This will reduce and avoid this kind of poor designs.

Now the approving government bodies are checking only in the planning aspects and not in structural aspects.

Atleast now the government should wake up and take a preventive action by introducing PE's approval for structural design, to avoid the same kind of failures in future.
     


G.PARTHASARATHY M.E. CEng(UK), MICE., MIE.,
CHENNAI
GPSARATHYY@GMAIL.COM (GPSARATHYY@GMAIL.COM)

     



     


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SunilJaitley
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: Require Geotech. Report be Sign/Sealed by a Licensed Ge Reply with quote

VPandya wrote:
Dear Prof. K.A.Abu Baker,

You have raised a very important point.
  
Your satatement " Let SEFI move all state governments on this.".  I have work in USA with many Licensed Geotech. Engineer. Each project has Geotech. report Signed and Sealed by a Licensed Geotech.  or Licensed Professional Engineer. Not only that some cities  require that FINAL  FOUNDATION (Structural) DRAWINGS (Issued for Construction) submitted to City Building Depart. for building permit,  be Signed and Sealed by  the Licensed Geotech. Engineer. That is in addition to  Sign and Seal of a Licensed Structural Engineer on the same drawings.    

Short of such requirements of a Licensed Geotech. Engineer we can not resolve this issue. Any thing less will not do the job in my opinion.


Regards .

Vasudeo Pandya  P.E. ; S.E.
Structural Engineer.

Sir,
The registration of Geo tech engineers is not prevalent and the procedure for Registration by local bodies for structural engineers is faulty.Comprehensive policy is need of an hour.SEFI can play commendable role in this aspect.
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