www.sefindia.org

STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING FORUM OF INDIA [SEFI]

 Forum SubscriptionsSubscriptions DigestDigest Preferences   FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups  RegisterRegister FAQSecurity Tips FAQDonate
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log in to websiteLog in to websiteLog in to websiteLog in to forum 
Warning: Make sure you scan the downloaded attachment with updated antivirus tools  before opening them. They may contain viruses.
Use online scanners
here and here to upload downloaded attachment to check for safety.

news item regarding bridge collapse in 2012
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topicReply to topic Thank Post    www.sefindia.org Forum Index -> SEFI General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
prof.arc
...
...


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 703

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:22 am    Post subject: news item regarding bridge collapse in 2012 Reply with quote

It was shocking to me to read from TOI article that Prof. Vipul Prakash of IIT-Roorkee has been arrested.
I know him personally, as also his family. Prof. VP has brilliant credentials - apart from being a topper in BE,
he did his Ph.D  with distinction from University of California at Berkeley, USA.

The bridge had failed apparently due to faulty construction but to blame the designer is unkindest cut of all
The bridge had no live load /no earthquake at that time and design cannot be blamed as he must have used
well tested commercial software or his own

probably, he was ill advised by his lawyers not to heed to original summons. That is why he must have got
non-bailable arrest warrant now.

I think our Forum should debate the role of designer and what precautions one has to take
like never avoid summons to appear in court

I wish he gets relief very soon

His father, my former colleague, Prof. Anand Prakash must be greatly upset as also well wishers like me
So many of students of father and son must be members of SEFI

Let me hope that it is a very temporary set back

I have absolutely no doubt about Prof. VP's ability as a designer

ARC
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
abhy_vivek
Silver Sponsor
Silver Sponsor


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 688

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:04 am    Post subject: Re: news item regarding bridge collapse in 2012 Reply with quote

The email below is really upsetting and frightening, too; it also points out many other things as below :-


1) Just being good Engineer / Teacher is not sufficient, we should be firmly aware about the Legal tricks and tactics (especially that go in Indian courts); and never hire a 'Busy' lawyer. Hire a lawyer which is sincere for time and aware about recent legal provisions.


2) Regarding the bridge failure and the series of enquiries we all are aware about the recent collapses of bridges - at Surat, Kolkata (Ulta Danga bridge), DMRC and Chennai LG collapses, and how the engineers escaped and passed on the blames to others.


3) Lack of Unity among 'Structural Engineering' is getting exposed time and again. If something goes wrong with 'Doctors' or 'Lawyers' or 'Taxi/Rickshaw drivers' they all come on the road, united . . . have we such action from Structural Engineers any time, in any Nation . . . we believe that Structural Engineer's are Intellectual and clean people among the Civil Engineering fraternity . . . but let's not allow others to take disadvantage of this . . .


Apart from Prof. VP there are many cases where Sincere and intellectual professors were arrested by local corporations (for example for Bhuj Earthquake). . . why structural engineers / professors often become scapegoat of the polluted system !!!


Let's once again all of us come together and on urgent basis 'sign' a letter of protest and circulate it online, and present it before court through representatives of SEFI, located in Roorkee by Friday 11th Sept'15. Let's all ensure that no innocent structural engineer suffers because of loop holes / mistakes in the system !


Hoping for the Best


Vivek Abhyankar
Mumbai


prof.arc wrote:
It was shocking to me to read from TOI article that Prof. Vipul Prakash of IIT-Roorkee has been arrested.
I know him personally, as also his family. Prof. VP has brilliant credentials - apart from being a topper in BE,
he did his Ph.D  with distinction from University of California at Berkeley, USA.

The bridge had failed apparently due to faulty construction but to blame the designer is unkindest cut of all
The bridge had no live load /no earthquake at that time and design cannot be blamed as he must have used
well tested commercial software or his own

probably, he was ill advised by his lawyers not to heed to original summons. That is why he must have got
non-bailable arrest warrant now.

I think our Forum should debate the role of designer and what precautions one has to take
like never avoid summons to appear in court

I wish he gets relief very soon

His father, my former colleague, Prof. Anand Prakash must be greatly upset as also well wishers like me
So many of students of father and son must be members of SEFI

Let me hope that it is a very temporary set back

I have absolutely no doubt about Prof. VP's ability as a designer

ARC
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
N. Prabhakar
General Sponsor
General Sponsor


Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Posts: 474

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sefians,

It is a shocking news to read in today's newspapers about the arrest of two Professors of IIT, Roorkee, Prof. Vipul Prakash and Prof. V. K. Gupta, in connection with Tehri Bridge crash three years ago.  It is understood that Prof. Prakash had designed the bridge, and Prof. Gupta had done proof-checking of the design

It appears that a three-member Special Investigation Team (SIT) has conducted the probe.  Unless this team has members with experience in the design and construction of bridges, this probing of bridge collapse has no meaning, and it is only an easy way to blame everyone connected with it. The lawyers representing the Professors should ask for the credibility of SIT which has resulted arrest of the two professors.

As Prof. arc has rightly pointed out that the bridge had failed apparently due to faulty construction but to blame the designer is unkindest cut of all.  The bridge had no live load /no earthquake at that time, and even a lay man can say that faulty design cannot cause the collapse due to self-weight only.  

As Mr. Vivek Abhyankar has suggested, structural engineers of SEFI should make a protest about this unjustly arrest of two professors, and see that it doesn't happen again in future.

With best wishes,

N. Prabhakar
Chartered Structural Engineer
Vasai (E)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
alpa_sheth
...
...


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: news item regarding bridge collapse in 2012 Reply with quote

Hi All,

Completely agree with Vivek and Prof A R Chandrasekaran.  We know how in some of the bridge failures Vivek has pointed out the real designers escaped punishment and blamed some underlings who went to jail instead.

Let's look at the legal issue. It is not clear to me why they should arrest someone who is only charged with something and not yet proved guilty. But I am also wondering why he did not attend the court  summons. Also, why did Prof Vipul Prakash  (who is a v good engineer and was my classmate at Berkeley) not take anticipatory  bail (a non-bailable offence means that bail cannot be got from police station; only a judge/judicial magistrate can give it) from the judiciary?

Perhaps he was not guided well. I think the IIT should give legal support and advice as he is their employee. After all, it reflects on the Institute too.

I am assuming that as we speak he is already out on bail. But my advice to all practising engineers-

a) Check all  drawings yourself or a trusted person in your team with at least 15 years experience.

b) If there is a problem, get legal advice ASAP! Pl do have a strong legal advisor as part of your permanent group of consultants.  Get your agreements vetted by them. Also discuss with them in case of disputes with clients.


I am beginning to believe that a good lawyer is as important to us as a good CA!!

regards,
Alpa



abhy_vivek wrote:
The email below is really upsetting and frightening, too; it also points out many other things as below :-


1) Just being good Engineer / Teacher is not sufficient, we should be firmly aware about the Legal tricks and tactics (especially that go in Indian courts); and never hire a 'Busy' lawyer. Hire a lawyer which is sincere for time and aware about recent legal provisions.


2) Regarding the bridge failure and the series of enquiries we all are aware about the recent collapses of bridges - at Surat, Kolkata (Ulta Danga bridge), DMRC and Chennai LG collapses, and how the engineers escaped and passed on the blames to others.


3) Lack of Unity among 'Structural Engineering' is getting exposed time and again. If something goes wrong with 'Doctors' or 'Lawyers' or 'Taxi/Rickshaw drivers' they all come on the road, united . . . have we such action from Structural Engineers any time, in any Nation . . . we believe that Structural Engineer's are Intellectual and clean people among the Civil Engineering fraternity . . . but let's not allow others to take disadvantage of this . . .


Apart from Prof. VP there are many cases where Sincere and intellectual professors were arrested by local corporations (for example for Bhuj Earthquake). . . why structural engineers / professors often become scapegoat of the polluted system !!!


Let's once again all of us come together and on urgent basis 'sign' a letter of protest and circulate it online, and present it before court through representatives of SEFI, located in Roorkee by Friday 11th Sept'15. Let's all ensure that no innocent structural engineer suffers because of loop holes / mistakes in the system !


Hoping for the Best


Vivek Abhyankar
Mumbai


prof.arc wrote:
It was shocking to me to read from TOI article that Prof. Vipul Prakash of IIT-Roorkee has been arrested.
I know him personally, as also his family. Prof. VP has brilliant credentials - apart from being a topper in BE,
he did his Ph.D  with distinction from University of California at Berkeley, USA.

The bridge had failed apparently due to faulty construction but to blame the designer is unkindest cut of all
The bridge had no live load /no earthquake at that time and design cannot be blamed as he must have used
well tested commercial software or his own

probably, he was ill advised by his lawyers not to heed to original summons. That is why he must have got
non-bailable arrest warrant now.

I think our Forum should debate the role of designer and what precautions one has to take
like never avoid summons to appear in court

I wish he gets relief very soon

His father, my former colleague, Prof. Anand Prakash must be greatly upset as also well wishers like me
So many of students of father and son must be members of SEFI

Let me hope that it is a very temporary set back

I have absolutely no doubt about Prof. VP's ability as a designer

ARC
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SunilJaitley
General Sponsor
General Sponsor


Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:09 am    Post subject: news item regarding bridge collapse in 2012 Reply with quote

Dr.Bhomick,senior member
SEFI and distinguished Bridge
Design engineer may also give his invaluable opinion on the subject. On Sep 8, 2015 1:13 PM, "N. Prabhakar" <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           Dear Sefians,

It is a shocking news to read in today's newspapers about the arrest of two Professors of IIT, Roorkee, Prof. Vipul Prakash and Prof. V. K. Gupta, in connection with Tehri Bridge crash three years ago. It is understood that Prof. Prakash had designed the bridge, and Prof. Gupta had done proof-checking of the design

It appears that a three-member Special Investigation Team (SIT) has conducted the probe. Unless this team has members with experience in the design and construction of bridges, this probing of bridge collapse has no meaning, and it is only an easy way to blame everyone connected with it. The lawyers representing the Professors should ask for the credibility of SIT which has resulted arrest of the two professors.

As Prof. arc has rightly pointed out that the bridge had failed apparently due to faulty construction but to blame the designer is unkindest cut of all. The bridge had no live load /no earthquake at that time, and even a lay man can say that faulty design cannot cause the collapse due to self-weight only.

As Mr. Vivek Abhyankar has suggested, structural engineers of SEFI should make a protest about this unjustly arrest of two professors, and see that it doesn't happen again in future.

With best wishes,

N. Prabhakar
Chartered Structural Engineer
Vasai (E)
     



     


Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
skanagasundaram
SEFI Regulars
SEFI Regulars


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:08 am    Post subject: news item regarding bridge collapse in 2012 Reply with quote

It is quite right to say that engineers should also be aware of legal implications and 'tricks and tactics' of the system.

Is it Engineers Bill that will protect us like?


Dr S. Kanagasundaram
Coimbtaore


On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 10:34 AM, abhy_vivek <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           The email below is really upsetting and frightening, too; it also points out many other things as below :-


1) Just being good Engineer / Teacher is not sufficient, we should be firmly aware about the Legal tricks and tactics (especially that go in Indian courts); and never hire a 'Busy' lawyer. Hire a lawyer which is sincere for time and aware about recent legal provisions.


2) Regarding the bridge failure and the series of enquiries we all are aware about the recent collapses of bridges - at Surat, Kolkata (Ulta Danga bridge), DMRC and Chennai LG collapses, and how the engineers escaped and passed on the blames to others.


3) Lack of Unity among 'Structural Engineering' is getting exposed time and again. If something goes wrong with 'Doctors' or 'Lawyers' or 'Taxi/Rickshaw drivers' they all come on the road, united . . . have we such action from Structural Engineers any time, in any Nation . . . we believe that Structural Engineer's are Intellectual and clean people among the Civil Engineering fraternity . . . but let's not allow others to take disadvantage of this . . .


Apart from Prof. VP there are many cases where Sincere and intellectual professors were arrested by local corporations (for example for Bhuj Earthquake). . . why structural engineers / professors often become scapegoat of the polluted system !!!


Let's once again all of us come together and on urgent basis 'sign' a letter of protest and circulate it online, and present it before court through representatives of SEFI, located in Roorkee by Friday 11th Sept'15. Let's all ensure that no innocent structural engineer suffers because of loop holes / mistakes in the system !


Hoping for the Best


Vivek Abhyankar
Mumbai


      prof.arc wrote:                It was shocking to me to read from TOI article that Prof. Vipul Prakash of IIT-Roorkee has been arrested.
I know him personally, as also his family. Prof. VP has brilliant credentials - apart from being a topper in BE,
he did his Ph.D with distinction from University of California at Berkeley, USA.

The bridge had failed apparently due to faulty construction but to blame the designer is unkindest cut of all
The bridge had no live load /no earthquake at that time and design cannot be blamed as he must have used
well tested commercial software or his own

probably, he was ill advised by his lawyers not to heed to original summons. That is why he must have got
non-bailable arrest warrant now.

I think our Forum should debate the role of designer and what precautions one has to take
like never avoid summons to appear in court

I wish he gets relief very soon

His father, my former colleague, Prof. Anand Prakash must be greatly upset as also well wishers like me
So many of students of father and son must be members of SEFI

Let me hope that it is a very temporary set back

I have absolutely no doubt about Prof. VP's ability as a designer

ARC     
     



     


Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
abhy_vivek
Silver Sponsor
Silver Sponsor


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 688

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: news item regarding bridge collapse in 2012 Reply with quote

Good to note that the professors are now out. But Let's Remember such situation can arise with any other fraternity members as well !! And he / she may not have back up of IIT / SEFI or any other organisation.


So let's come together, increase our strength and establish our credentials. Let's develop good young engineers. What happened in Surat, Kolkata and Delhi is known to every one (and was very very bad. . . only shows lack of good engineering ethics, and spoilt the name of noble profession in India).


The life of scapegoats almost got ruined . . . !!

alpa_sheth wrote:
Hi All,

Completely agree with Vivek and Prof A R Chandrasekaran.  We know how in some of the bridge failures Vivek has pointed out the real designers escaped punishment and blamed some underlings who went to jail instead.

]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
alpa_sheth
...
...


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: news item regarding bridge collapse in 2012 Reply with quote

Not sure they are out as yet. My discussion with a top ranking  IIT Roorkee official  a couple of hours ago indicated they were not out as yet despite all efforts. Let's hope they are out by tonight.

regards,
Alpa



abhy_vivek wrote:
Good to note that the professors are now out. But Let's Remember such situation can arise with any other fraternity members as well !! And he / she may not have back up of IIT / SEFI or any other organisation.


So let's come together, increase our strength and establish our credentials. Let's develop good young engineers. What happened in Surat, Kolkata and Delhi is known to every one (and was very very bad. . . only shows lack of good engineering ethics, and spoilt the name of noble profession in India).


The life of scapegoats almost got ruined . . . !!

alpa_sheth wrote:
Hi All,

Completely agree with Vivek and Prof A R Chandrasekaran.  We know how in some of the bridge failures Vivek has pointed out the real designers escaped punishment and blamed some underlings who went to jail instead.

]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
K B NEELAKANTAN
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:48 pm    Post subject: news item regarding bridge collapse in 2012 Reply with quote

It is shocking to learn about the arrest of Prof Vipul Prakash .Usually committees are constituted to investigate the causes of failure of any major structure. Only after final conclusion extreme steps are taken. The structural design and proof checking records should be available in the records and the presence of Structural Designer / Proof Checker is not a must during checking the details as the records would speak themselves. In the present case it appears that the the reason for arrest is for not responding to the summons. Hope he would have got bail by this time. Let us all unite in resisting such raw deals to the structural designers.

On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 1:16 PM, alpa_sheth <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           Hi All,

Completely agree with Vivek and Prof A R Chandrasekaran. We know how in some of the bridge failures Vivek has pointed out the real designers escaped punishment and blamed some underlings who went to jail instead.

Let's look at the legal issue. It is not clear to me why they should arrest someone who is only charged with something and not yet proved guilty. But I am also wondering why he did not attend the court summons. Also, why did Prof Vipul Prakash (who is a v good engineer and was my classmate at Berkeley) not take anticipatory bail (a non-bailable offence means that bail cannot be got from police station; only a judge/judicial magistrate can give it) from the judiciary?

Perhaps he was not guided well. I think the IIT should give legal support and advice as he is their employee. After all, it reflects on the Institute too.

I am assuming that as we speak he is already out on bail. But my advice to all practising engineers-

a) Check all drawings yourself or a trusted person in your team with at least 15 years experience.

b) If there is a problem, get legal advice ASAP! Pl do have a strong legal advisor as part of your permanent group of consultants. Get your agreements vetted by them. Also discuss with them in case of disputes with clients.


I am beginning to believe that a good lawyer is as important to us as a good CA!!

regards,
Alpa



      abhy_vivek wrote:                The email below is really upsetting and frightening, too; it also points out many other things as below :-


1) Just being good Engineer / Teacher is not sufficient, we should be firmly aware about the Legal tricks and tactics (especially that go in Indian courts); and never hire a 'Busy' lawyer. Hire a lawyer which is sincere for time and aware about recent legal provisions.


2) Regarding the bridge failure and the series of enquiries we all are aware about the recent collapses of bridges - at Surat, Kolkata (Ulta Danga bridge), DMRC and Chennai LG collapses, and how the engineers escaped and passed on the blames to others.


3) Lack of Unity among 'Structural Engineering' is getting exposed time and again. If something goes wrong with 'Doctors' or 'Lawyers' or 'Taxi/Rickshaw drivers' they all come on the road, united . . . have we such action from Structural Engineers any time, in any Nation . . . we believe that Structural Engineer's are Intellectual and clean people among the Civil Engineering fraternity . . . but let's not allow others to take disadvantage of this . . .


Apart from Prof. VP there are many cases where Sincere and intellectual professors were arrested by local corporations (for example for Bhuj Earthquake). . . why structural engineers / professors often become scapegoat of the polluted system !!!


Let's once again all of us come together and on urgent basis 'sign' a letter of protest and circulate it online, and present it before court through representatives of SEFI, located in Roorkee by Friday 11th Sept'15. Let's all ensure that no innocent structural engineer suffers because of loop holes / mistakes in the system !


Hoping for the Best


Vivek Abhyankar
Mumbai


      prof.arc wrote:                It was shocking to me to read from TOI article that Prof. Vipul Prakash of IIT-Roorkee has been arrested.
I know him personally, as also his family. Prof. VP has brilliant credentials - apart from being a topper in BE,
he did his Ph.D with distinction from University of California at Berkeley, USA.

The bridge had failed apparently due to faulty construction but to blame the designer is unkindest cut of all
The bridge had no live load /no earthquake at that time and design cannot be blamed as he must have used
well tested commercial software or his own

probably, he was ill advised by his lawyers not to heed to original summons. That is why he must have got
non-bailable arrest warrant now.

I think our Forum should debate the role of designer and what precautions one has to take
like never avoid summons to appear in court

I wish he gets relief very soon

His father, my former colleague, Prof. Anand Prakash must be greatly upset as also well wishers like me
So many of students of father and son must be members of SEFI

Let me hope that it is a very temporary set back

I have absolutely no doubt about Prof. VP's ability as a designer

ARC          
     



     


Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chander.pawa
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 11 Mar 2010
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was a shocking news, without any technical investigation and consultation with an experienced and suitable independent person a decision like this should have been taken. I feel that now onwards the  designer should keep a tab on the site as well as the credentials of the site staff. The attitude of the Labour and supervisory staff needs complete change and Chalta ha! Itne we kuch nahin hota! has to be wiped out completely.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topicReply to topic Thank Post    www.sefindia.org Forum Index -> SEFI General Discussion All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


© 2003, 2008 SEFINDIA, Indian Domain Registration
Publishing or acceptance of an advertisement is neither a guarantee nor endorsement of the advertiser's product or service. advertisement policy