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Diluting standards of Technical Education

 
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abhy_vivek
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:43 am    Post subject: Diluting standards of Technical Education Reply with quote

I have been guiding and reviewing the BE, AMIE and M.Tech thesis for various reputed institutes for past couple of years. Present post is on basis on the frustrating experience / observations gathered through those years.

In spite of rapidly developing 'computing technology', I find that the 'Usefulness' and the academic thesis is degrading year after year. The students want to get very simple Topics for project so that they can finish up in four or five months and enjoy in remaining time and get the job quickly. Even the college teachers are reluctant to review / guide the students in time, thus the final thesis is just an 'Eye-wash'. (I agree that there are few students and teachers who do really good work but this quantity is limited to just 5%).

Government of India keeps encouraging people to join 'Research', but looking at the 'Quality of Research' done at M.Tech level I am really getting uppset and worried. The large funds which the college gets are not spent on 'Renewal of Testing machinery', 'Purchase of Good Magazines / Books', sending students to good workshops etc.

How far such casual attitude towards academic thesis will go ?
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Dr. N. Subramanian
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Diluting standards of Technical Education Reply with quote

Dear Er. Vivek

I was surprised to learn that there are some private companies which will produce M. E. Thesis for a fee. Many students avail these services. This is the worst scenario for education.

Many Civil/Mech/Elec graduates join in IT companies and hence not interested to learn the basic Civil/Mech/Elec subjects.

Warm regards
Subramanian

abhy_vivek wrote:
I have been guiding and reviewing the BE, AMIE and M.Tech thesis for various reputed institutes for past couple of years. Present post is on basis on the frustrating experience / observations gathered through those years.

In spite of rapidly developing 'computing technology', I find that the 'Usefulness' and the academic thesis is degrading year after year. The students want to get very simple Topics for project so that they can finish up in four or five months and enjoy in remaining time and get the job quickly. Even the college teachers are reluctant to review / guide the students in time, thus the final thesis is just an 'Eye-wash'. (I agree that there are few students and teachers who do really good work but this quantity is limited to just 5%).

Government of India keeps encouraging people to join 'Research', but looking at the 'Quality of Research' done at M.Tech level I am really getting uppset and worried. The large funds which the college gets are not spent on 'Renewal of Testing machinery', 'Purchase of Good Magazines / Books', sending students to good workshops etc.

How far such casual attitude towards academic thesis will go ?
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abhy_vivek
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:44 am    Post subject: Re: Diluting standards of Technical Education Reply with quote

Oh my God. . . private parties supplying ready made Thesis to Studnets . . . what a pity !!
   and what the professors are doing in such colleges then

The conclusion is the Glory and Ethics of 'Civil Engineering' profession are vanishing day by day   . . . we all have to forget the difference bewteen us, and come together to reinstate the lowering standards of the profession !


Dr. N. Subramanian wrote:
Dear Er. Vivek

I was surprised to learn that there are some private companies which will produce M. E. Thesis for a fee. Many students avail these services. This is the worst scenario for education.
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suraj
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:44 pm    Post subject: Civil Engineers are required in future, but no major intakes for this education Reply with quote

Civil Engineers are required in future, but no major intakes for this education
It is upsetting situation that students & parents are not interested in civil engineering
Currently, fact is that civil engineering is least paid job in Bharat, but Bharat is not end of world
Unfortunately, oil prices slump has forced all GCC nations to defer major projects for time being, otherwise, thousands of civil engineers were required in gulf states itself
Qatar Petroleum state oil giant has retrenched 10000 engineers, during last two years
Many other states run companies have done similarly
Few days back, I read one survey that in 2020 & thereafter, 4 Million civil engineers shall be required in India Bharat & elsewhere, while delivery is only 3 Lakhs in India
This means that acute shortage is going to occur, after a few years from now
Those who are now studying civil engineering shall be absorbed somewhere
General salaries are then expected to be multiplied
Currently, West qualified engineer with 15 years experience gets around 50000 UAE drams
Indian on similar role if selected may get 25000 to 30000 package
If such scenario reaches, it shall be better for civil engineers
I am sure that sooner such good & attractive scenario is seen

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Thanks & Warm Regards
IntPE(India)Suraj Singh FIE Civil
Engineering & Arbitration

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vegad
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the topic Er. Abhyankar.

I know of certain friends who had got a professional paid help in structural modeling during final year dissertation 1.5 decade back. They were quite practical, as they knew they are never going to derive any benefits by putting in extra brains in it.

They had their family businesses, got good marks, displayed it in marriage bureau and scored a great dowry. They are successful in their own definition.

There are people from different school of thoughts, different ethics and economic backgrounds; and all are correct in in their own ways.

As Er. Suraj, rightly pointed 'Engineer does not exist in soul of Architect Act 1972'; it also rarely exists in public works tenders, which often caps the entry of consulting with turnover based on actual contracting.

In such a scenario, where there is no economic demand of quality civil/structural engineering services (there is a need but no instruments to call it in demand); how can there be demanding environment for the knowledge? Many students need, just degree certificates, for unimaginable reasons.

It has not even spared the students passing out from top public engineering institutes; the amount of students who de-engineer themselves by opting for management courses, ultimately landing themselves as top administrators, accountants, sales guys and analysts helping MNCs explore the Indian market.

We cannot blame them as they tried their best on achieving what their families were betting on them.

What value addition does society as whole get from just upgrading education standards, in such a scenario? At last it has to be reciprocated by reforms which call for application of such knowledge. For ex. I can still see new buildings coming up with soft storey in ground floor parking.

No wonder, the situation is degrading but the overall situation keeps itself in balance. And you by guiding a few, can make a good contribution in this balance.

Thank you.
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abhy_vivek
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: Diluting standards of Technical Education Reply with quote

PROFESSIONAL PARADOX :-

  • Unfortunate the old nobel profession of Civil Engineering is now known as the profession of maximum 'Couruption' in India.

  • Civil Engineers have given their charge (sold) in the hands of uneducated contrcators / "Thekedar".

  • If the engineering profession is not identified as a 'Profession' then under what head are we paying the 'Professional Tax' ?

  • Architects are dominating us because of our own weakness - i.e. lack of unity !

  • We have so many branches within Civil Engineering like - Structure, Hydro, Highways, Geotech, Planning, Surveying, Enviro, etc. etc. that we have forgotten that we are basically 'Civil Engineers'. Fights between 'Structures' and 'Geotech' engineers is known to all in profession.

  • Civil Engineering is a Last choice for students for education !

  • A Commerce or Arts gratuate with 60% in SSC earns more as a CA or a Lawyer than Civil Engineer who scored 80-90% in SSC / HSC / BE.

  • MEDICAL, LAW, FIANANCE all proessions are preserving / securing their 'Social Position'. . . where the Engineering stands !!! . . . goging down or rising up ?

Please express you frank opinion.

Reg
Vivek Abhyankar
Structural Engineer
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Er. Abhyankar,

You are correct.

However I feel architects are dominating on paper and only due to the words of an act, in real situation they are in same boat like us, puppets of commercial forces. Their product is more visible and they can tell a lot of stories and use a jargon and presentations. These from an engineering point of view is regarded as superfluous activities. So in short we are like a chip designers who is least interested in activities of smart phone manufacturer.

Engineer's products are developed proactively when society does not even know about the problem they may face if engineering goes wrong.

For Ex. If some non-engineer needs an apartment, no thought will be given to safety and the real build quality, apart from what is visible. We get to see descriptions of plumbing and tiles, at max branded steel and cement used.

However we can control total construction industry by asking a reforms which need a registered civil engineer's certification for construction quality. Any contractor shall not be able to operate without civil engineers certificate on board even for even a smallest work which need engineering knowhow and is covered by BIS. This way investors may get convinced for serious engineering inputs and he may prepare to undertake safety seriously, hence pay reasonable.

Real time problems of a living human being is health problem, legal problem and taxation problem. All 3 has short time limits beyond which life quality and human insecurity are greatly affected.

Engineering problems does not have very short time limits and are not readily perceived by human insecurity. One can choose a poor quality cell phone and develop cancer and yet cannot know how it happened.

Hence Medical, Legal and Taxation professions are doing great all over the world. Greed, ego and subsidies drives the fourth profession - Politics, yes its a profession now. There are rarely any Kshatriyas left in government and politics, apart from those in defense system.

Civil Engineers have given their charge (sold) in the hands of uneducated contrcators / "Thekedar" - For that I will let you know of my experience that an architect-contractor 'ransacked' our office for us declining to attend to comments of proof checker, unless payments of previous works were released to us. He was then black listed. There is no threat of law for contractors. I hope you know of stories of engineers dying for not 'cooperating'.

The decline is inevitable.

The regulations are so poor that virtually 1 in every 50 (may be less) shopkeeper in India is a developer now. And those who do well, they have in family architect/engineer bred for calculating FSIs and stamping where need. Where does the question of applying science arise?

Good day.
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abhy_vivek
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ONE OF THE "KEY" REASONS FOR REMAINING ON BACK SEAT IN ENGINEERING IS - "LACK OF EXPERIMENTATION".

We keep teaching theory - theory and only theory to students . . . and hardly any (full week) site visits to demonstrate practical aspects at site.
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