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dipak_bhattacharya ...


Joined: 18 Jun 2011 Posts: 76
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 11:38 am Post subject: Econf for RERA |
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Why not limit the scope of a Structural Engineer within supplying Detail Engineering Design and Drawing only?
Let owner of the property decide whom other should be held responsible for what.
It is a common Indian practice among the owners to appoint the cheapest staff AVAILABLE IN THE MARKET.
Thanks.
On 23 May 2017 at 15:18, rvshankar143 <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote: | Respected members,
In continuation of my previous posts….
I agreed on the front that structural engineer should not be held responsible for quality issues, and if GOI / Peoples want that the quality supervision should be in the structural engineers scope then following thing comes into the picture.
 Structural work supervision should be removed from architect’s scope and also from COA compliances.
 I agreed that more focus should be putted on quality design and drawing but in the same time contractor should be aware about the construction methodology.
 There should be the strong guidelines for the selection of eligible contractor who have the proper knowledge of execution.
 Sir I saw many places where even after supplying the proper and detailed drawings, site were not following the same.
 This problem is found frequently in government projects and average level developer and promoters and with small contractors too.
If everyone wants that they should be safe on their front, then who is going to take responsibility for the overall safety of structure, its structure engineer who issues the certificate and signs the certificate. And ultimately questions firstly raises on structure engineer.
I totally agreed from the N. Prabhakar sir’s point of view.
After viewing all responses from the respected SEFI members the open ended point is still there, which I am writing below with some experiences..
1. Unity among structural engineer The possibility of this is almost null (some among you will definitely say that Ravi this is your mind set, but no it is not like that). I am just sharing an experience regarding the same..
a. Few Days back a client came to me to certify a structure (factory building having span of 7mx7m with 5 roofs) along with a preg_replace('/<!--\[if[^\]]*]>.*?<!\[endif\]-->/i', '', $string); report (done by a NDT consultant). The building were constructed 10 year back but were not in use and this client wanting that to use this first time (client purchased this building from some builder. NDT done on 4 columns, and grade of concrete achieved is M:9.5 , After studying the report I requested for some more preg_replace('/<!--\[if[^\]]*]>.*?<!\[endif\]-->/i', '', $string); in beams and slab which cost to approx 90k, the clint taken another opinion from another structural consultant (who is very experienced, I will not mention the name) and they given a statement that it doesn’t need anything it can be used after doing some minor chiping work and even we don’t need that too.
b. Again client came to me and said that you don’t know anything anoth structure guy said to not to do anything.
c. Now my question is, can be achieve unity by doing this kind of thing?????????
d. Or I can assume that this is another way to dropping the fees. Now if a senior consultant is doing this than what junior will learn??????????
2. An Engineer Yes many people will give definition of a structure engineer.
a. My point of concern is, at some place what I found that draftsperson level is getting trained in software’s to develop the analysis model (it is the capability of drafts person who learns and I am not questioning on it and not even demoting them, even I also taught some of them), concern is after some time they come to an engineer and says that what you are dong I am doing the same and hence I am also an engineer.
b. Big surprising thing that head of design of that company throws out the engineer and started getting work done from that draftsperson.
c. One more surprise thing is that trained draftsperson comes in a meeting to discuss with me regarding the design methodology of structure.
d. After some time he starts their own and starting dropping down the fees.
e. I request that in engineers bill there should be the clear qualification criteria.
3. Fees Without unity this can’t be possible
Ultimately structure engineer is taking pain with almost null amount of fees with endless work effort with changes signing for the stability of structure and also end of the day question raised on us about the quality issues also.
I also agreed from respected Alpha mam and Respected Sangeeta mam.
I request all off you to kindly share your view point and kindly do the something for coming generation of structure engineer.
Regards
Ravi Shankar
M.Tech (Structure)
Ph:- +91-9718549278
Structure is bone of world.
Ravi Shankar
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suraj General Sponsor


Joined: 17 Apr 2008 Posts: 5878 Location: NCR Faridabad, E mail suraj_engineer@yahoo.co.uk
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 12:10 pm Post subject: Site Structural Works |
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Dear Eng Prabhakar Sagib
I differ in with your contention that site structural controls are not required by Structural Engineers
All site structural works must be done under controls of Structural Engineers or else, who would respond to adequacy
Not necessary that same designer should be deployed
Experienced Structural Engineer must examine all structural works
N. Prabhakar wrote: | Dear Sefians,
The RERA act has made Structural Consultants to think about their role in building construction and on matters related to structural defects. I am suggesting the following services to be carried out by structural consultants, irrespective of the implementation of RERA act::
1. Preparation of structural analysis, design of structural elements and detail construction drawings.
2. While preparing the above, any structural consultant can make mistakes in numerical calculations, design assumptions, etc. But the consultant with experience can notice such mistakes easily whereas an inexperienced consultant may not be able to do that. Hence, experience in our profession is an absolute necessity to avoid mistakes. How much experience a structural consultant to have is a debatable matter. In my opinion, it should be minimum 10 years.
3. In large organisations of structural consultancy, normally there will be 2-3 tiers of checking the design and drawings by senior engineers within the firm which avoids mistakes and create a safe design. But in smaller consultancy firms, such checking is not available and it solely depends on the experience of one structural engineer.
4. Generally speaking, for large projects, a peer review of design and drawings is a must in the interest of all to avoid mistakes that lead to structural defects. As an obligation and In the interest of public, the local municipal authorities should do the checking of design and drawings submitted to them by the property developer/contractor before giving approval to start construction. In the absence of such checking in our country due to lack of personnel within these municipal authorities, the only option left is to appoint an outside independent structural consultant to do the checking, the little cost of which is to be borne by the municipal authorities or the property developer. This procedure would certainly avoid design mistakes and structural defects.
5. The most important aspect of structural consultancy is in the preparation of detail drawings which is their final product to site. Drawings are the language of engineers by which we can communicate to the site without being there physically. For reinforced concrete buildings, the drawings should show plans, elevations and sections, as needed, of structural elements, like slabs, beams, columns, walls, footings etc. with reinforcement details of each bar showing laps where required, with bar mark and a detail bar bending schedule related to it. To prepare the bar bending schedule, the design office should know the data from site about the availability of different diameter of bars and their lengths at site. By having such detail drawings, there is no need for the structural consultant to visit the site for checking and inspection which could be done easily by site staff.. Without having the bar bending schedule on the drawing, the site staff may do mistakes in curtailing and lapping of bars at wrong places, as they do not know about the design aspect like ductile detailing, which may lead to severe structural defects. I am writing this as the current practice by many consultants in India to prepare the reinforcement drawings in a tabular form, without showing a single bar on the drawing. This practice of drawing preparation should stop, and municipal authorities should not accept such drawings while giving the approval. In UK, both consulting and contracting firms do prepare detail drawings, as mentioned above, while doing consultancy work for a project.
6. During my long professional career with contracting and consulting firms in India and UK, also as an independent structural consultant in India, I have given equal importance for detail drawings, as for the analysis and design. I find that the site staff at projects I have worked appreciated the detail drawings as it eases their work.
7. Supervision of work at site is not the work of structural consultants.
I trust you will agree with my suggestions about our role as structural consultants.
With best wishes,
N. Prabhakar, BE, CEng(I), MIStructE (UK), MIE (Ind)
Chartered Structural Engineer
Vasai (E), Pin 401 208 |
_________________ Thanks & Warm Regards
IntPE(India)Suraj Singh FIE Civil
Engineering & Arbitration
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K B NEELAKANTAN SEFI Member

Joined: 18 Mar 2010 Posts: 10
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 1:37 pm Post subject: Econf for RERA |
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Dear Sir,
I agree with Shri N Prabhakar that supervision is not the work structural consultants provided there is suitable clause for that in the agreement with property developer or architectural consultants .
Most of the structures fail not because of wrong structural design but because of defects in construction execution. If structural consultant has executed professional guarantee it is better to visit site and have a look and get the defects corrected without any commitment when any critical members are executed.
I think this is beyond the scope of RERA.
Thanks and regards,
K.B.Neelakantan
On 23-May-2017 1:30 PM, "suraj" <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote: Quote: | Dear Eng Prabhakar Sagib
I differ in with your contention that site structural controls are not required by Structural Engineers
All site structural works must be done under controls of Structural Engineers or else, who would respond to adequacy
Not necessary that same designer should be deployed
Experienced Structural Engineer must examine all structural works
N. Prabhakar wrote: Dear Sefians,
The RERA act has made Structural Consultants to think about their role in building construction and on matters related to structural defects. I am suggesting the following services to be carried out by structural consultants, irrespective of the implementation of RERA act::
1. Preparation of structural analysis, design of structural elements and detail construction drawings.
2. While preparing the above, any structural consultant can make mistakes in numerical calculations, design assumptions, etc. But the consultant with experience can notice such mistakes easily whereas an inexperienced consultant may not be able to do that. Hence, experience in our profession is an absolute necessity to avoid mistakes. How much experience a structural consultant to have is a debatable matter. In my opinion, it should be minimum 10 years.
3. In large organisations of structural consultancy, normally there will be 2-3 tiers of checking the design and drawings by senior engineers within the firm which avoids mistakes and create a safe design. But in smaller consultancy firms, such checking is not available and it solely depends on the experience of one structural engineer.
4. Generally speaking, for large projects, a peer review of design and drawings is a must in the interest of all to avoid mistakes that lead to structural defects. As an obligation and In the interest of public, the local municipal authorities should do the checking of design and drawings submitted to them by the property developer/contractor before giving approval to start construction. In the absence of such checking in our country due to lack of personnel within these municipal authorities, the only option left is to appoint an outside independent structural consultant to do the checking, the little cost of which is to be borne by the municipal authorities or the property developer. This procedure would certainly avoid design mistakes and structural defects.
5. The most important aspect of structural consultancy is in the preparation of detail drawings which is their final product to site. Drawings are the language of engineers by which we can communicate to the site without being there physically. For reinforced concrete buildings, the drawings should show plans, elevations and sections, as needed, of structural elements, like slabs, beams, columns, walls, footings etc. with reinforcement details of each bar showing laps where required, with bar mark and a detail bar bending schedule related to it. To prepare the bar bending schedule, the design office should know the data from site about the availability of different diameter of bars and their lengths at site. By having such detail drawings, there is no need for the structural consultant to visit the site for checking and inspection which could be done easily by site staff.. Without having the bar bending schedule on the drawing, the site staff may do mistakes in curtailing and lapping of bars at wrong places, as they do not know about the design aspect like ductile detailing, which may lead to severe structural defects. I am writing this as the current practice by many consultants in India to prepare the reinforcement drawings in a tabular form, without showing a single bar on the drawing. This practice of drawing preparation should stop, and municipal authorities should not accept such drawings while giving the approval. In UK, both consulting and contracting firms do prepare detail drawings, as mentioned above, while doing consultancy work for a project.
6. During my long professional career with contracting and consulting firms in India and UK, also as an independent structural consultant in India, I have given equal importance for detail drawings, as for the analysis and design. I find that the site staff at projects I have worked appreciated the detail drawings as it eases their work.
7. Supervision of work at site is not the work of structural consultants.
I trust you will agree with my suggestions about our role as structural consultants.
With best wishes,
N. Prabhakar, BE, CEng(I), MIStructE (UK), MIE (Ind)
Chartered Structural Engineer
Vasai (E), Pin 401 208
Thanks & Warm Regards
IntPE(India)Suraj Singh FIE Civil
Engineering & Arbitration
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N. Prabhakar General Sponsor


Joined: 25 Apr 2009 Posts: 474
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Er. Suraj Saab and Er. Harsodaji,
I refer to your observation on my posting that structural consultants should involve with site supervision. I would like to elaborate here under the suggestion I had made earlier on the role of structural consultants in site supervision:
The supervision of work at site is a full time job for the entire period of construction. It comprises the following:
1. To check that the materials used viz. cement, steel, fine and coarse aggregates, etc. are as per the contract specifications and Indian standards.
2. To check that the formwork and temporary false work are properly provided with true plumb.
3. To check concrete mix design with adequate cement content, water-cement ratio and admixtures if added.
4. To check the correct placement of reinforcement with necessary cover as per the reinforcement detail drawings.
5. To check correct placing of concrete with construction joints if required.
6. To check joint surface preparation where construction joints are provided.
7. To check proper and adequate curing of exposed concrete surfaces as per the contract specifications.
8. To check removal of forms and temporary false work as per the contract specifications.
9. To check if any crack has developed on the concrete surfaces or large deflection/displacement/settlement have taken place, and inform the Structural Consultant about it.
I hope that the above list covers all aspects of major construction activities at site. I have not covered items like measurement of works, quantity survey, bill payment, etc. which do not come under supervision of work. As it can be seen, the above supervision of work can be done easily by experienced civil engineers at site who are degree or diploma holders and non-structural engineers without having design experience. The visit of structural consultants to site is necessary during construction only if there is any problem in constructability or in the sequence of construction. I believe in projects where owner is different from the property developer or contractor, owner’s staff comprising civil engineers at site or Project Management Consultants (PMC) are employed to do the site supervision. Hence, supervision of work at site is normally done by experienced civil engineers, and services of structural consultants are not required for this work.
I trust that the above explanation satisfies you on the subject matter.
With best wishes,
N. Prabhakar |
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N. Prabhakar General Sponsor


Joined: 25 Apr 2009 Posts: 474
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Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:12 am Post subject: |
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Dear Sefians,
I would like to add further about responsibility of engineers in the implementation of RERA act. Structural Consultants are responsible for structural design and drawings they make for the building, and site engineers who do the supervision of work at site are responsible for quality of construction work. These sound logic and have no doubts to have a second opinion on them.
With best wishes,
N. Prabhakar |
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ssfalcao SEFI Member

Joined: 24 Jul 2009 Posts: 9
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Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 7:16 am Post subject: Econf for RERA |
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Dear Eng Prabhakar
When you give a Structural Stability Certificate you will have to do ALL that you have listed below and even more.... I'm happy at last there is a list!
What I fail to understand how a Certificate can be issued with so much responsibility claim! And Structural​ Engineer not wanting to do the necessary specifications and supervision ... Verification on site.... before issuing of certificate.
Does it mean we have to lie on a certificate?
If one feels that PMC is taking all the responsibility of site execution, pls ask the PMC to issue Structural Stability Certificate.... And wash your hands off... Pls do tell me which PMC firm or individual will do that?
Regards
Sebastiao
On May 24, 2017 11:57 AM, "N. Prabhakar" <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote: Quote: | Dear Er. Suraj Saab and Er. Harsodaji,
I refer to your observation on my posting that structural consultants should involve with site supervision. I would like to elaborate here under the suggestion I had made earlier on the role of structural consultants in site supervision:
The supervision of work at site is a full time job for the entire period of construction. It comprises the following:
1. To check that the materials used viz. cement, steel, fine and coarse aggregates, etc. are as per the contract specifications and Indian standards.
2. To check that the formwork and temporary false work are properly provided with true plumb.
3. To check concrete mix design with adequate cement content, water-cement ratio and admixtures if added.
4. To check the correct placement of reinforcement with necessary cover as per the reinforcement detail drawings.
5. To check correct placing of concrete with construction joints if required.
6. To check joint surface preparation where construction joints are provided.
7. To check proper and adequate curing of exposed concrete surfaces as per the contract specifications.
8. To check removal of forms and temporary false work as per the contract specifications.
9. To check if any crack has developed on the concrete surfaces or large deflection/displacement/settlement have taken place, and inform the Structural Consultant about it.
I hope that the above list covers all aspects of major construction activities at site. I have not covered items like measurement of works, quantity survey, bill payment, etc. which do not come under supervision of work. As it can be seen, the above supervision of work can be done easily by experienced civil engineers at site who are degree or diploma holders and non-structural engineers without having design experience. The visit of structural consultants to site is necessary during construction only if there is any problem in constructability or in the sequence of construction. I believe in projects where owner is different from the property developer or contractor, owner’s staff comprising civil engineers at site or Project Management Consultants (PMC) are employed to do the site supervision. Hence, supervision of work at site is normally done by experienced civil engineers, and services of structural consultants are not required for this work.
I trust that the above explanation satisfies you on the subject matter.
With best wishes,
N. Prabhakar
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SATYAPAUL General Sponsor

Joined: 18 Sep 2008 Posts: 127
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Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 7:16 am Post subject: Econf for RERA |
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dear friends, Structural engineer's inspection at site is must.what he has to observe and i am narrating you facts of life. 1) i observed that reinforcement in cantilever portion instead on the top with adequate cover was at continuous at the bottom.i had to stop the work.contractor was unhappy.contractor said,i too have an engineer employed.i said it is not my business to whom you employ. 2)in a basement retaining wall did not have the reinforcement placed at correct distance.after service ie with time period it developed cracks and gave way to water from outside i.e leakage of water.immediate there was no cure.epoxy grout to stop leakage was only alternative,but how to strengthen the wall. 3) on one site the RCC slab deflected after opening of shuttering.reason on support, the reinforcement required at support on continuous slab on top side i.e negative Reinforcement was not provided. 4)temperature reinforcement was provided at greater depth in a concrete road slab,after one summer the road had surface cracks on whole length. 5) very recently i pointed to a government director posted on NHAI project that why deck slab of a bridge,which is 200 mm thick,leakage has been observed.he did not accept as poor workmanship.But said it is natural and there is no poor workmanship.very close to his office there was overhead water storage tank,walls were 200 mm thick and there was no leakage.wall thickness was confirmed by the engineer of water supply department.no answer. coordination of all disciplines of engineers i.e. Electrical,fire fighting,mechanical,communication,water supply and sewerage is must before concreting work is started apart from the structural designer.Construction engineer has to ensure proper placing of reinforcement,adequate lapping,proper shuttering with firm support,proper cover to reinforcement,check ducts and its support for air conditioning,fire main supports.i can not mention because there is along list.even now wrong practice is followed at site.a structural designer site visit must to avaid many faults. regards satya pal 0 On Wed, 24 May 2017 11:57:22 +0530 "N. Prabhakar" wrote > Dear Er. Suraj Saab and Er. Harsodaji, > > I refer to your observation on my posting that structural consultants should involve with site supervision. I would like to elaborate here under the suggestion I had made earlier on the role of structural consultants in site supervision: > > The supervision of work at site is a full time job for the entire period of construction. It comprises the following: > > 1. To check that the materials used viz. cement, steel, fine and coarse aggregates, etc. are as per the contract specifications and Indian standards. > > 2. To check that the formwork and temporary false work are properly provided with true plumb. > > 3. To check concrete mix design with adequate cement content, water-cement ratio and admixtures if added. > > 4. To check the correct placement of reinforcement with necessary cover as per the reinforcement detail drawings. > > 5. To check correct placing of concrete with construction joints if required. > > 6. To check joint surface preparation where construction joints are provided. > > 7. To check proper and adequate curing of exposed concrete surfaces as per the contract specifications. > > 8. To check removal of forms and temporary false work as per the contract specifications. > > 9. To check if any crack has developed on the concrete surfaces or large deflection/displacement/settlement have taken place, and inform the Structural Consultant about it. > > I hope that the above list covers all aspects of major construction activities at site. I have not covered items like measurement of works, quantity survey, bill payment, etc. which do not come under supervision of work. As it can be seen, the above supervision of work can be done easily by experienced civil engineers at site who are degree or diploma holders and non-structural engineers without having design experience. The visit of structural consultants to site is necessary during construction only if there is any problem in constructability or in the sequence of construction. I believe in projects where owner is different from the property developer or contractor, owner’s staff comprising civil engineers at site or Project Management Consultants (PMC) are employed to do the site supervision. Hence, supervision of work at site is normally done by experienced civil engineers, and services of structural consultants are not required for this work. > > I trust that the above explanation satisfies you on the subject matter. > > With best wishes, > > N. Prabhakar > > > > --
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bijoyav ...


Joined: 13 Dec 2008 Posts: 114
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Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:00 am Post subject: Econf for RERA |
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Let me attach the two forms as given in the NBC relevant to structural
design to have a more creative discussion. One is structural design
sufficiency and the other is as executed at site.
On 24/05/2017, SATYAPAUL <forum@sefindia.org> wrote:
Quote: | dear friends, Structural engineer's inspection at site is must.what he has
to observe and i am narrating you facts of life. 1) i observed that
reinforcement in cantilever portion instead on the top with adequate cover
was at continuous at the bottom.i had to stop the work.contractor was
unhappy.contractor said,i too have an engineer employed.i said it is not my
business to whom you employ. 2)in a basement retaining wall did not have the
reinforcement placed at correct distance.after service ie with time period
it developed cracks and gave way to water from outside i.e leakage of
water.immediate there was no cure.epoxy grout to stop leakage was only
alternative,but how to strengthen the wall. 3) on one site the RCC slab
deflected after opening of shuttering.reason on support, the reinforcement
required at support on continuous slab on top side i.e negative
Reinforcement was not provided. 4)temperature reinforcement was provided at
greater depth in a concrete road slab,after one summer the road had surface
cracks on whole length. 5) very recently i pointed to a government director
posted on NHAI project that why deck slab of a bridge,which is 200 mm
thick,leakage has been observed.he did not accept as poor workmanship.But
said it is natural and there is no poor workmanship.very close to his
office there was overhead water storage tank,walls were 200 mm thick and
there was no leakage.wall thickness was confirmed by the engineer of water
supply department.no answer. coordination of all disciplines of engineers
i.e. Electrical,fire fighting,mechanical,communication,water supply and
sewerage is must before concreting work is started apart from the
structural designer.Construction engineer has to ensure proper placing of
reinforcement,adequate lapping,proper shuttering with firm support,proper
cover to reinforcement,check ducts and its support for air
conditioning,fire main supports.i can not mention because there is along
list.even now wrong practice is followed at site.a structural designer site
visit must to avaid many faults. regards satya pal 0 On Wed,
24 May 2017 11:57:22 +0530 "N. Prabhakar" wrote > Dear Er. Suraj
Saab and Er. Harsodaji, > > I refer to your observation on my posting that
structural consultants should involve with site supervision. I would like
to elaborate here under the suggestion I had made earlier on the role of
structural consultants in site supervision: > > The supervision of work at
site is a full time job for the entire period of construction. It comprises
the following: > > 1. To check that the materials used viz. cement, steel,
fine and coarse aggregates, etc. are as per the contract specifications and
Indian standards. > > 2. To check that the formwork and temporary false
work are properly provided with true plumb. > > 3. To check concrete mix
design with adequate cement content, water-cement ratio and admixtures if
added. > > 4. To check the correct placement of reinforcement with
necessary cover as per the reinforcement detail drawings. > > 5. To check
correct placing of concrete with construction joints if required. > >
6. To check joint surface preparation where construction joints are
provided. > > 7. To check proper and adequate curing of exposed concrete
surfaces as per the contract specifications. > > 8. To check removal of
forms and temporary false work as per the contract specifications. > >
9. To check if any crack has developed on the concrete surfaces or large
deflection/displacement/settlement have taken place, and inform the
Structural Consultant about it. > > I hope that the above list covers all
aspects of major construction activities at site. I have not covered items
like measurement of works, quantity survey, bill payment, etc. which do not
come under supervision of work. As it can be seen, the above supervision of
work can be done easily by experienced civil engineers at site who are
degree or diploma holders and non-structural engineers without having
design experience. The visit of structural consultants to site is necessary
during construction only if there is any problem in constructability or in
the sequence of construction. I believe in projects where owner is
different from the property developer or contractor, owner’s staff
comprising civil engineers at site or Project Management Consultants (PMC)
are employed to do the site supervision. Hence, supervision of work at site
is normally done by experienced civil engineers, and services of structural
consultants are not required for this work. > > I trust that the above
explanation satisfies you on the subject matter. > > With best wishes, > >
N. Prabhakar > > > > --
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ermanchand SEFI Member

Joined: 19 Jul 2008 Posts: 2
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Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:00 am Post subject: Econf for RERA |
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Respected all members,
I am working in government department in Himachal Pradesh. Recently Himachal government has issued a notification to make structural stability certificate mandatory for approval of completion certificate. I have one question in my mind. Why this certificate is needed from structural engineer as he has already provided his structural report to his client may be architect, owners or developer. Rest of of the issue remains with the construction engineers at site who supervises the site. If calculation of structural engineers are wrong they are already responsible as they have provided design report. I think certificate should say only responsibility of structural design report. Stability word should be removed. Failure. May due to many factors such as poor material and construction practice etc. Thus this certificate should have at least three parts.
1 design calculation should certified by experienced practicing engineers.
2. Quality should certified by construction/ supervising engineer.
3. Developer or owner should not be left behind he should be certify that every procedure has been followed as recommended by engineers and local bodies/ authority responsible for construction.
Regards.
Sent from my Windows Phone
From: ssfalcao (forum@sefindia.org)
Sent: ý5/ý24/ý2017 12:47 PM
To: econf@sefindia.org (econf@sefindia.org)
Subject: [E-CONF] Re: Econf for RERA
Dear Eng Prabhakar
When you give a Structural Stability Certificate you will have to do ALL that you have listed below and even more.... I'm happy at last there is a list!
What I fail to understand how a Certificate can be issued with so much responsibility claim! And Structural​ Engineer not wanting to do the necessary specifications and supervision ... Verification on site.... before issuing of certificate.
Does it mean we have to lie on a certificate?
If one feels that PMC is taking all the responsibility of site execution, pls ask the PMC to issue Structural Stability Certificate.... And wash your hands off... Pls do tell me which PMC firm or individual will do that?
Regards
Sebastiao
On May 24, 2017 11:57 AM, "N. Prabhakar" forum@sefindia.org)> wrote: --auto removed--
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suraj General Sponsor


Joined: 17 Apr 2008 Posts: 5878 Location: NCR Faridabad, E mail suraj_engineer@yahoo.co.uk
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Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:42 pm Post subject: Who is engineer on a project in legal terms? |
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Respected Prabhakar sahib
You have just finished whole debate in 2 designations
Design Engineer & Site Engineer
But, who is engineer independent of Promoter's control?
Promoter's paid engineers employees cannot be trusted for job of an engineer, being an independent one
Structural engineer can also, not escape responsibilities in complete just by saying that drawings were issued to Site engineer, who is responsible
Complete mix up sahib
In case of mishap, whom law shall hold?
Structural Engineer or Site Engineer
We should know that Site Engineer or agent term applies to Contractor's employed engineer
Resident term applies to promoter' appointed Engineer's assistant
Engineer term applies to an engineer employed by promoter for complete responsibility of project
Whatever fault on structure is responsibility of Engineer only, if he is paid fee or even employed on regular basis
His name is notified to contractor for purpose of bid & name of resident engineer for purpose of site management
Structural engineer works for Engineer
Site engineer can never be held responsible for any design mishap
Site engineer is a person employed by contractor & therefore, got no legal liability for structural failure, either on site or in designs
Then, who shall take legal responsibility of design?
I understand that Engineer is right professional to own all such responsibilities & through its binding, lead goes to structural engineer obligation & accountability, which depends upon what details on structural designers services contract exist
There may be no liability on structural engineer, with DISCLAIMER sealed on all drawings
Or complete responsibility defined
Management cannot be carried out in patches
Projects are expensive & also, legal rights pay badly when definitions are unclear
Engineers in Bharat/India always fail on all such issues for they ignore legal accountability
Police shall hold person, whose seal appears on drawing & not Engineer or Architect
N. Prabhakar wrote: | Dear Sefians,
I would like to add further about responsibility of engineers in the implementation of RERA act. Structural Consultants are responsible for structural design and drawings they make for the building, and site engineers who do the supervision of work at site are responsible for quality of construction work. These sound logic and have no doubts to have a second opinion on them.
With best wishes,
N. Prabhakar |
_________________ Thanks & Warm Regards
IntPE(India)Suraj Singh FIE Civil
Engineering & Arbitration
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