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STRUCTURAL ENGINEER'S FEES VS. BROKER FEES
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sunilgorle
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 29 Apr 2009
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:30 am    Post subject: STRUCTURAL ENGINEER'S FEES VS. BROKER FEES Reply with quote

Dear All



why don't we share our mobile numbers of people who are interested so that we can create a whatsapp group to take this forward and protect our Structural Engineering Fraternity.


my mobile number is 09948742154
Hyderabad




On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 1:25 PM, dilip1464 <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
[quote]            Dear
Engineers


Why can't the municipality or the city corporation employ some qualified structural engineers similar to Dubai Municipality where every Model and drawings be thoroughly checked, which boost the practicing structural community in a significant manner , Here the architects and builders were having the upper hand and ironically structural engineers need arises only during the designing stages and that's it.
We structural engineers need to show our value by having a unified price through out the country. Let them search and come for us, show our strength.


Regards
Dilip Chandran
Structural consultant


On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 12:16 AM, Dr. N. Subramanian forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:
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kumar_kashyap
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Joined: 17 Jun 2016
Posts: 1
Location: Bangalore

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:30 am    Post subject: STRUCTURAL ENGINEER'S FEES VS. BROKER FEES Reply with quote

Hi All,

It's good that we keep discussing our challenges in profession,


However, there is a real need for a compliance body for structural engineers which regulates the profession by CPD programmes, certifications , etc. Similar to CAs, medical bodies etc.


Unless this gets implemented and strict adherence in the system, solution to these problems will remain challenging.


Professional bodies can then direct the guidelines for rates, insurance on the fees , minimum qualifications for specific projects, etc.


Welcome thoughts from all.


Correct me if my thinking doesn't make sense Smile


Best regards,
Kumar


On Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 17:18 zubsaif <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

Quote:
           Dears All,


We keep discussing about this issue repeatedly over the years I have a suggestion;


1. We form a structural engineers practicing guild and register a body over pan india basis.


2. Every state and city shall have local offices.


3. Every new engineer to register with the body under different category and with hirarchial grades.


4. We can have seminars notifying to the community, in fact educating the community on various levels.


5. We need to have libraries, trainings, events for the same.


6. We need to designate the engineers pyramid per area.


7. Builders, residential owners, property developments need to come to that office for the structural engineering services.


8. To keep a consistency of money flow, we need to stipend engineers.


9. Rates shall be consistent accordingly and every office shall practice same rates as per the book.


10. Rates can be published yearly or monthly depending upon set yearly set target.


You can add more


Thanks regards
Syed Zubair

On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 at 3:47 AM mohd_arastu forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:

Quote:
           Dear Sir

I really respect your words, but we are living in a country when a structural engineer quote a fee (say X amount) other structural engineer quote (amount of 0.5X). We do not have unity, integrity & ethics to get the work order professionally.


On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 11:04 PM, alpa_sheth forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org) (forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)))> wrote:
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srimahesh
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Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 10
Location: Hyderabad

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Engineering is heart for the structure. Nobody can see from outside, but with out which the whole structure fails. Very few can understand the value of Engineering.

I also saw cases where Engineers are pointed first... true!!! when there's some problem at site or some collapse etc.... the first thing everyone says is 'Designer did not give the right design'. but all other factors like inputs to engineering, quality, workmanship etc., comes later.

An Engineer must always be positioned well for smooth execution of jobs and for better society.
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vaibhavgoyal2
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:30 am    Post subject: STRUCTURAL ENGINEER'S FEES VS. BROKER FEES Reply with quote

Dear Sir,

The fee you are referring INR 4 to 12psf is still better if you are getting.
Im having clients who pay INR 1 to 1.25 psf.


This is just because of the free lancers mainly and because we structural engineer are not united for the fee. yes in today market to survive we are cutting down like anything and clients/architects/pmc companies from whom we structural engineers are getting the projects are taking very good advantage.


first of all we ourself have to demotivate to use free lancers for getting our job done. Secondly, when ever we get a project half done by any other consultant or completely done by other consultant we must refuse to comments in a way which client take advantage and cut down the fee of the main consultant and for the project which is half done by other shall be completely refused. This is because many time clients/architects/pmc companies take the staad file and CAD drawings from the consultant and try to approach another structural consultant. they will negotiate or explain that not much work is required to be done just carry forward from where the old consultant has stops the work nd just get his project done in peanuts. He will never pay the dues to his main consultant and will land up in getting job done in very less costs.


India is a place where paper work itself has no importance and there are no strict guiding rules for controlling and watching the fees.
Even if client agree on paper for INR 5psf he will exploit by saying we will only pay half it is just for the records.


If some how we can reach to a platform or make a platform where such issues can be handle nd controlled would be very good.


Thanks and Regards


Vaibhav Goyal
Director
Abstruse Consulting Engineeing Services Pvt. Ltd.
9643840145




On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 11:04 PM, alpa_sheth <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           Hi:

The desperate real estate scenario is causing developers to pay up to
15% of the ticket price of a property to the broker. So if we are
looking at Rs 15000/- per sq ft property, the broker is getting Rs
2250/- psft. And in the same scenario, structural engineers are
getting even more squeezed and being paid between Rs 4 to max Rs 12
psft.

Us poor engineers can not imagine that a broker can get RS 2250 psf
brokerage for a building we may be getting just Rs 10 psf for design!

What kind of a skewed world do we live in??

best regards,

Alpa

*************

Real estate: Developers turn to marketing firms to boost sales

Property firms are forming partnerships with specialized marketing
firms such as Anarock, Xanadu Realty and Sai Estate for aggressive
sales strategy to tide over a realty slowdown that's lasted for over
four years now

Mint/Last Published: Wed,Apr 18 2018.

By Madhurima Nandy Bidya Sapam

Bengaluru/Mumbai: At a recent Mumbai fashion event, sales and
marketing campaigns for two residential property projects were
launched to an audience that included Bollywood actors and socialites.

The developers of the projects - Unity by Lotus Group, and The White
Villa by StAngelo's VNCT Ventures, designed by Suzanne Khan—had
outsourced the marketing to real estate brokerage firm Sai Estate
Consultants for a fee of around 15% of the project revenue. This is
becoming increasingly common.

................ Article Source :
https://www.livemint.com/Companies/vpMwPMzgIFyfXgXtC63RAN/Real-estate-Developers-turn-to-marketing-firms-to-boost-sal.html
     



     



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sangeeta_wij
...
...


Joined: 21 Apr 2016
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:30 am    Post subject: STRUCTURAL ENGINEER'S FEES VS. BROKER FEES Reply with quote

Dear Kumar
Although what you’ve written is very true and relevant, but it’s a repeat many times over; Indian Govt turned down all attempts of Engineering Regulatory Body being formed and Engineer’s Bill has been scuttled for good. Structural Engineers in India have a National level platform in IAStructE, and I feel you may consider becoming a member. It does carry out an extensive National level capacity building exercise and joining it is a two way benefit. However, I do agree there’s a need to regulate the quality of design and the consultancy fees, but in an unorganised Industry like ours, it does appear to be far fetched . In any case, in professions like Architecture, legally regulated and all, abounds multiple issues of underquoting, lack of capacity building, unfamiliarity with BIS Codes(especially the critical issues in Eq resistant designs) and a lack of proper coordination with multi disciplinary teams. Regulation does solve some of the issues, but can’t be a cure-for-all.




Best Regards
Sangeeta Wij
President,WISE India
Managing Partner
SD Engineering Consultants LLP
Vice President(North),Indian Association of Structural Engineers,
Fellow and Chartered Engineer, Institution of Engineers
H333 New Rajinder Nagar(Lower Ground Floor),
New Delhi-110060
Ph:9811776210;01145128530


From: kumar_kashyap [mailto:forum@sefindia.org]
Sent: 24 April 2018 11:05
To: general@sefindia.org
Subject: [SEFI] Re: STRUCTURAL ENGINEER'S FEES VS. BROKER FEES



Hi All,

It's good that we keep discussing our challenges in profession,


However, there is a real need for a compliance body for structural engineers which regulates the profession by CPD programmes, certifications , etc. Similar to CAs, medical bodies etc.


Unless this gets implemented and strict adherence in the system, solution to these problems will remain challenging.


Professional bodies can then direct the guidelines for rates, insurance on the fees , minimum qualifications for specific projects, etc.


Welcome thoughts from all.


Correct me if my thinking doesn't make sense Smile


Best regards,
Kumar


On Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 17:18 zubsaif forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:
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azmat.baig4
SEFI Member
SEFI Member


Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:30 am    Post subject: STRUCTURAL ENGINEER'S FEES VS. BROKER FEES Reply with quote

Hello Everyone.Not only structural engineers, all consulting engineers in India don't have unity. Which is why we are failing to earn or get what we actually deserve. Why we cannot form a organisation of engineers who have Degree in Civil. And act like a one.
For Chartered Engineer from the IE India we have to go through lots of steps and pay large amount of fees. Why?


On Thu 19 Apr, 2018, 11:05 PM alpa_sheth, <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

Quote:
           Hi:

The desperate real estate scenario is causing developers to pay up to
15% of the ticket price of a property to the broker. So if we are
looking at Rs 15000/- per sq ft property, the broker is getting Rs
2250/- psft. And in the same scenario, structural engineers are
getting even more squeezed and being paid between Rs 4 to max Rs 12
psft.

Us poor engineers can not imagine that a broker can get RS 2250 psf
brokerage for a building we may be getting just Rs 10 psf for design!

What kind of a skewed world do we live in??

best regards,

Alpa

*************

Real estate: Developers turn to marketing firms to boost sales

Property firms are forming partnerships with specialized marketing
firms such as Anarock, Xanadu Realty and Sai Estate for aggressive
sales strategy to tide over a realty slowdown that's lasted for over
four years now

Mint/Last Published: Wed,Apr 18 2018.

By Madhurima Nandy Bidya Sapam

Bengaluru/Mumbai: At a recent Mumbai fashion event, sales and
marketing campaigns for two residential property projects were
launched to an audience that included Bollywood actors and socialites.

The developers of the projects - Unity by Lotus Group, and The White
Villa by StAngelo's VNCT Ventures, designed by Suzanne Khan—had
outsourced the marketing to real estate brokerage firm Sai Estate
Consultants for a fee of around 15% of the project revenue. This is
becoming increasingly common.

................ Article Source :
https://www.livemint.com/Companies/vpMwPMzgIFyfXgXtC63RAN/Real-estate-Developers-turn-to-marketing-firms-to-boost-sal.html
     



     



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kedar_kavathekar
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Joined: 06 Apr 2018
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:30 am    Post subject: STRUCTURAL ENGINEER'S FEES VS. BROKER FEES Reply with quote

I agree with your thoughts because I was also thinking on the same lines.

On 24-Apr-2018 11:06 AM, "kumar_kashyap" <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:[quote]            Hi All,

It's good that we keep discussing our challenges in profession,


However, there is a real need for a compliance body for structural engineers which regulates the profession by CPD programmes, certifications , etc. Similar to CAs, medical bodies etc.


Unless this gets implemented and strict adherence in the system, solution to these problems will remain challenging.


Professional bodies can then direct the guidelines for rates, insurance on the fees , minimum qualifications for specific projects, etc.


Welcome thoughts from all.


Correct me if my thinking doesn't make sense Smile


Best regards,
Kumar


On Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 17:18 zubsaif forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:

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sangeeta_wij
...
...


Joined: 21 Apr 2016
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:30 pm    Post subject: STRUCTURAL ENGINEER'S FEES VS. BROKER FEES Reply with quote

Dear Vaibhav
What you’ve suggested is an ideal but hypothetical situation and cannot lead to same or similar fee for all structural consultants; your fee will naturally vary with how many years have you worked for, how big is your team of engineers/draftsmen, their no of years of experience, size and logistics of your office in terms of computer configurations, softwares purchased with AMCs and other monthly expenses. The set of competencies available in every office will be different and so will be their monthly expenses, and expectation of profit. It may not be rational to expect that everyone will agree to charge the same set of fee although a range of fees maybe more in order.I have personally benefitted by requesting the Client for a direct engagement, not commencing the work without one, and not accepting to work as a sub to an Architect as it normally amounts to working without any work orders or agreements.




Best Regards
Sangeeta Wij
President,WISE India
Managing Partner
SD Engineering Consultants LLP
Vice President(North),Indian Association of Structural Engineers,
Fellow and Chartered Engineer, Institution of Engineers
H333 New Rajinder Nagar(Lower Ground Floor),
New Delhi-110060
Ph:9811776210;01145128530


From: vaibhavgoyal2 [mailto:forum@sefindia.org]
Sent: 24 April 2018 14:55
To: general@sefindia.org
Subject: [SEFI] Re: STRUCTURAL ENGINEER'S FEES VS. BROKER FEES



Dear Sir,

The fee you are referring INR 4 to 12psf is still better if you are getting.
Im having clients who pay INR 1 to 1.25 psf.


This is just because of the free lancers mainly and because we structural engineer are not united for the fee. yes in today market to survive we are cutting down like anything and clients/architects/pmc companies from whom we structural engineers are getting the projects are taking very good advantage.


first of all we ourself have to demotivate to use free lancers for getting our job done. Secondly, when ever we get a project half done by any other consultant or completely done by other consultant we must refuse to comments in a way which client take advantage and cut down the fee of the main consultant and for the project which is half done by other shall be completely refused. This is because many time clients/architects/pmc companies take the staad file and CAD drawings from the consultant and try to approach another structural consultant. they will negotiate or explain that not much work is required to be done just carry forward from where the old consultant has stops the work nd just get his project done in peanuts. He will never pay the dues to his main consultant and will land up in getting job done in very less costs.


India is a place where paper work itself has no importance and there are no strict guiding rules for controlling and watching the fees.
Even if client agree on paper for INR 5psf he will exploit by saying we will only pay half it is just for the records.


If some how we can reach to a platform or make a platform where such issues can be handle nd controlled would be very good.


Thanks and Regards


Vaibhav Goyal
Director
Abstruse Consulting Engineeing Services Pvt. Ltd.
9643840145




On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 11:04 PM, alpa_sheth forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:
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sohel
...
...


Joined: 22 Oct 2013
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:30 pm    Post subject: STRUCTURAL ENGINEER'S FEES VS. BROKER FEES Reply with quote

Hey dear,You are talking of 4 to 8sqf and some of you are saying 1 to 1.25sqf for structural consultancy fees but I am telling the recent figure which will stirr whole community as you will know that in my recent visit to an architect's office ,he is offering me to work in lumsum rate of 10000 for a building up to G+5 to G+6 and built up area close to 15000sqft. They explains that builder pay them very less.


Thanks & Regards!

Md. Sohel Akhtar
Structural Engineer
M. Tech. : Structural Engineering
(STRD Engineering Consultant LLP)
9910541227

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On Tue, Apr 24, 2018, 14:56 vaibhavgoyal2 <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:

[quote]            Dear Sir,

The fee you are referring INR 4 to 12psf is still better if you are getting.
Im having clients who pay INR 1 to 1.25 psf.


This is just because of the free lancers mainly and because we structural engineer are not united for the fee. yes in today market to survive we are cutting down like anything and clients/architects/pmc companies from whom we structural engineers are getting the projects are taking very good advantage.


first of all we ourself have to demotivate to use free lancers for getting our job done. Secondly, when ever we get a project half done by any other consultant or completely done by other consultant we must refuse to comments in a way which client take advantage and cut down the fee of the main consultant and for the project which is half done by other shall be completely refused. This is because many time clients/architects/pmc companies take the staad file and CAD drawings from the consultant and try to approach another structural consultant. they will negotiate or explain that not much work is required to be done just carry forward from where the old consultant has stops the work nd just get his project done in peanuts. He will never pay the dues to his main consultant and will land up in getting job done in very less costs.


India is a place where paper work itself has no importance and there are no strict guiding rules for controlling and watching the fees.
Even if client agree on paper for INR 5psf he will exploit by saying we will only pay half it is just for the records.


If some how we can reach to a platform or make a platform where such issues can be handle nd controlled would be very good.


Thanks and Regards


Vaibhav Goyal
Director
Abstruse Consulting Engineeing Services Pvt. Ltd.
9643840145




On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 11:04 PM, alpa_sheth forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:
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N. Prabhakar
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Joined: 25 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sefians,

There are already too many views expressed in this forum about consultation fees for Structural Engineers. In my view, there cant be one standard rate of fees as there are too many types and ranges of structures which Structural Engineers deal with.  For example, the rate of consultation fee for a 18-20 storeyed building cannot be same as for a 5-6 storeyed building, which requires more knowledge and experience  to do it.  Consultation fees for industrial structures is again different as they require special expertise to do it.  Above all, the consultation fees depend on supply and demand for different types of services.  There are too many half-baked Structural Engineers  in the market who offer their services at a very low price.  Who can control all these?  Organisation like IAStructE has broadly formulated some guidelines on this matter, but this can be made effective only if organisations like PEATA and Builder Association of India agree to it.

I have drawn cartoons on this subject few years ago in the Indian Concrete Journal which I attach below, and nothing has changed since then.

With best wishes,

N. Prabhakar
Chartered Structural Engineer
Vasai (E), Pin 401 208



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