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OPEN HOUSE MEET
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abhio
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Joined: 08 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Prabhakar Sir,

In effect you are calling for a strike of structural engineers. While the cause is clear and just, I would suggest that we may individually be held liable under the Contract Act for any failure to provide designs for which we have contracted. I would request others more knowledgeable than myself to comment on this.

With respectful regards,

Abhijeet Oundhakar
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ajitkbhattacharyya
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:30 pm    Post subject: White paper on PE-SE licensing in India <edited> Reply with quote

Engineering is not a recognised profession in India .Engineering Council Of India is pursuing the issue with the Govt. for some years now.


With kind regards



A.K.BHATTACHARYYA


F.I.StructE (UK), FIE (India), FIBE, FIRT
H-2A, Hauzkhas, New Delhi -16, Ph:011-26854127




On Monday, March 2, 2015 8:17 AM, admin <forum@sefindia.org> wrote:



      [edited]

     Dear all,

I am visiting IITM on a Fulbright-Nehru grant this year. After the Mowlivakkam building collapse in Chennai, I wrote a white paper on PE-SE licensing in India. I think it is relevant to this discussion on "who is allowed to engineer buildings". I have attached the PDF for your perusal.

Please feel free to pass the document around and I welcome your comments.

Sincerely,

Swaminathan Krishnan
http://krishnan.caltech.edu
Fulbright-Nehru Scholar, IITM
     



     
Download Attachments:
IndiaPESEWhitePaper.pdf

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rahul_gaikwad
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Joined: 15 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:55 pm    Post subject: OPEN HOUSE MEET Reply with quote

Dear sefians,


it will be major setback to all civil engineers. kindly do something and change this new law. we all civil engineers are with you.


Thanking you,

Er. Rahul Gaikwad

Mumbai

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bhuvneshkapoor
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear All,

I will be attending the open house meet.

I have a suggestion that meanwhile we should prepare some facts highlighting clear differences between the role of Civil Engineers and Architects.
We must let people and Govt. know that how we build society and shape a nation. And to serve in a better way we need certain authority and recognition.

Warm Regards,
Bhuvnesh
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N. Prabhakar
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sefians,

I would like to clarify that the suggestion I made in my previous posting about non-issuing of design calculations and detail drawings by Structural Consultants for the projects they are working, is only a last resort when the ministry of urban development don't agree to our demands and maintain their stand on the proposed new rules on the matter.

Before that, we should try to convince them our important role in project implementation by way of presentation of case studies of building, industrial and infra-structure projects executed by Structural Consultants in the recent past, with design calculations, detail drawings, specifications, proof of supervision, etc. which they may not be fully aware of.   With this information, I am sure that they will agree to our demands for due recognition.  In view of our bad experience in the long-standing delay in passing the Engineer's Bill which is still pending, our demand from the ministry has to be time bound.

With best wishes,

N. Prabhakar
Chartered Structural Engineer
Vasai (E)
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bsec
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:01 am    Post subject: OPEN HOUSE MEET Reply with quote

Dear All,

This is to confirm that the "OPEN HOUSE MEET" on 17th of March 2015 is scheduled to be held at PHD HOUSE, 4/2 SIRI INSTITUTIONAL AREA, AUGUST KRANTI MARG, (SIRI FORT ROAD), NEW DELHI-110016.


Best Wishes


Alok Bhowmick

On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 4:45 PM, bsec <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
           Dear All,

This is an urgent 'distress call' by the President, Indian Association of Structural Engineers for an OPEN HOUSE meeting  on 17th March 2015 to actively participate and share your views on the future of our profession.


The immediate provocation for this distress call is the Model Building Bye-Law drafted at the behest of MoUD, which is likely to be adopted for the entire country, once approved.


All SEFIans are requested to not only participate actively and give your input, but also spread this message to all your Civil Engineering friends so that they can also give their input.


Those who are unable to participate in the OPEN HOUSE, should share their opinion in SEFI.


Best Wishes


Alok Bhowmick
- Forwarded message -
From: INDIAN ASSOCIATION OF STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS iastructe@gmail.com (iastructe@gmail.com))>
Date: Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 3:18 PM
Subject: OPEN HOUSE MEET
To:



Dear Fellow Engineers,
 
You may be surprised to know that the Ministry of Urban Development has uploaded a document on Model Building Bye- laws which is likely to be adopted for the Entire Country. You may access the same at  http://moud.gov.in/model
 
A brief reading of the document indicates that it defines parameters for Planning, Design & Construction of Buildings and Complexes all falling in the domain of Civil Engineering. However, a reading of APPENDIX-E defines the competence of Civil Engineers in a very LIMITED way and also does not match with that given in National Building Code of India 2005, Part 2: Administration. IN SHORT CIVIL ENGINEERS CANNOT SUBMIT PLANS FOR BUILDING PERMIT nor indulge in planning which they have been doing for the last 100 years. In this scenario the construction Industry will become monopolistic and even unaffordable to prospective clients. Moreover the Council of Architecture taking the shield of the Architects Act has created an adverse situation for Engineering Companies providing Architectural Services.
 
This move will deal a major blow to the Civil Engineering profession and their future will be at stake.
 
In this context an Open House Meet is being organized in Delhi so as to discuss ways to safeguard the domain of Civil Engineers.
 
The following FOUR main issues are proposed to be discussed:
  1.    Engineers Bill;
  
2.    Engineers should not be prevented from the Planning and Leadership Role in Projects;  
 
3.      Steps to ensure that the provisions of the National Building Code with regard to what the engineers can do it retained.
 
4.      What does the Architects Act 1972 actually say on issues relevant to Engineers.
 
We request you to actively participate to and share your views on the future of our profession. Thereafter representation shall be sent to the concerned ministry.
 
Kindly spread this message to other Civil Engineers known to you, since we have E-mail ids of only our members. All are welcome to attend.
 
Date shall be 17th March 2015,10:30 hrs at NEW DELHI / NCR.


VENUE shall be intimated shortly or after collating an approximate number for participation.
 
A line in confirmation shall help in making better arrangements .
 
Regards
 

Prof Mahesh Tandon
President IAStructE
     



     
Download Attachments:
President_Signature_-_Prof_Mahesh_Tandon1.jpg





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Jaydeep Vyas
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Joined: 26 Jan 2003
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Location: Bardoli, Dist.- Surat, Gujarat

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: Role of a Structural Engineer is well defined in USA Cod Reply with quote

VPandya wrote:
Dear  SEFI Engineers,

Role of a Licensed  Civil/Structural Engineer and a Licensed  Architect on a project are well understood by USA  Building Codes (IBC 2012). There is hardly any  debate on such issues in the minds of Licensed Engineers and Licensed Architects in USA. Is this new Code in India going to do some thing different then what is done in other Countries like USA? What happens to Liability issues and there by Public Safety issues?

See this comment from a very respected Structural Engineer in USA.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Emerging Issues in Structural Engineering:
Structural engineers have a uniquely significant responsibility for protecting the public relative to the other design disciplines. Architectural, mechanical, and electrical system failures usually result in unattractiveness, poor functionality, discomfort and/or inconvenience. A structural system failure almost always has more serious consequences, even in the best cases, there are often substantial costs associated with correcting what is or could become a life-threatening situation. As a result, professional liability insurance rates for structural engineers have been increasing, leading to the creation of the Risk Management Program (RMP). In addition, efforts are underway to establish board certification at the national level and expand separate licensure at the state level to "raise the bar" of qualifications to practice structural engineering.

     Blast resistance , Progressive/Disproportionate collapse,  of     
     structures.

      Fire resistance design of structures.

     Learning from failure/ collapse ofstructures.  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regards.

Vasudeo Pandya  P.E. ; S.E.
Structural Engineer



















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          Jaydeep Vyas
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          Joined: 26 Jan 2003
          Posts: 11
          Location: Bardoli, Dist.- Surat, Gujarat

          PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:21 am    Post subject: Open House Meet Reply with quote

          Respected Sir,
          I am Jaydeep Vyas, Enginner & Structural Designer. I work in the field of building and infrastructure since last 25 Years. From so many years we face so many controversies and problems in this field. I highlight some controversies and problems to understand this very big issue.
          1. Most of the black money is involved in this field. Nation looses its income.
          2. Nation does not have any cumulative record of real estate properties of every citizen of India.
          3. Many real estate properties are sold out without owner’s consent.
          4. So many times we see that some properties are sold out number of times without any knowledge of the previous owner or purchaser.
          5. Many times we see that land on which construction is going on is not title cleared.
          6. Many cases in civil courts are due to such type of cheating.
          7. Local authority does not have technically sound person to pass the building for construction. Person working in the authority to pass the plans interprets the rules and regulation as per his/her understanding or depending on the person involved.
          8. Before construction, building plans are passed by local authority without looking to the rules and regulations. Lots of corruptions are involved in passing the plan.
          9. Architect and/or Engineer and/or structural engineer are appointed by owner/ developer/ builder without written agreement and clarification of individual duty.
          10. Owner and/or Architect and/or Engineer and/or structural engineer do not supply detail properly.
          11. Most of the times construction is done without any Architect and/or Engineer and/or structural engineer. Generally it is constructed between mutual understanding of owner and civil contractor. End user has to face the problem in future.
          12. There is no control over the construction activities especially in small towns and villages that do not have engineer in local bodies.
          13. During construction, building is not inspected by local authority at different stages.
          14. During construction Owner/ Builder/ Developer, do not keep supervisor for quality control and to maintain the record of material or quality of construction.
          15. After construction of any building, Owner/ Builder/ Developer are the real beneficiary of that building. But they do not take any care for the best quality of construction even though proper knowledge they may have or proper instruction given to them by architect and/or engineer and/or structural engineer. They sleep by leaving all the responsibilities to the contractor and consultant like architect/ engineer/ structural engineer. All these carelessness is to be suffered by the real user.
          16. After construction, user uses the building in the way he/she wants to use or makes changes in the building without any technical advice from any engineer. User does not maintain the building for its safety. User beautifies the building but does not pay due attention to the safety of the building.
          17. Before any flood, local authority and state government do not have contour plan through which safe guard action can be taken.
          18. Before, during or after any calamities, any person does not have any record to safe guard.
          19. After calamities, government takes improper action against any person without looking to the role involved. Sometimes innocent persons are kept behind the bars and culprits are not touched at all.
          20. During terrorist attack on building, anti terrorist squad does not have plan of building. For example: - attack on different buildings of Mumbai on 26 Nov. 2008.
          All the above problems are because of improper working system, lack of knowledge of the persons involved in this industry, improper rules and regulations, improper action taken by the authority before and/or during construction and even after any calamities etc. Over and above maximum corruption, exploitation and black money is involved in this field. All these leads us frustration and breach of trust of the persons, society and nation. To over come this, I suggest following working system throughout nation as far as possible.
          1. Whole nation should be surveyed through satellite. This surveyed map should be prepared with contour map. This map will be useful during flood and to connect rivers.
          2. All real estate properties like lands and buildings of the nation should be surveyed through satellite.
          3. All the surveyed properties should be marked with the name of the owner and any necessary data. This can help government to find out black money and black property.
          4. If any owner wants to sell or develop his/her property, all the data should be such that it can be verified online. This will reduce fraud or cheating.
          5. If any owner or builder or developer wants to construct any building, following procedure should be strictly followed to reduce failure of any building and to have proper guide line after failure.
          (a) Government will form state authority which will work as a coordinator and communicator between all the concerning parties (owner, developer, builder, architect, structural engineer, supervising engineer, contractor, electrical contractor, plumbing and sanitation contractor etc.) as well as a record maintaining agency related to particular building. This state authority must work on line so that all the records can be registered with time and zero corruption. This state authority will pass all the buildings as per rules and regulation. This authority will proof check all the structural design as well as architectural plan. This state authority should have all the powers to monitor and control the construction activities.
          (b) Special resolution should pass mentioning duties and responsibilities of every agency. In this resolution, responsibilities of different agencies should be on the profit sharing bases as well as following work, duties and responsibilities should be clearly simplified and specified for every agency.
          Owner/ Developer/ Builder :- will appoint all the agencies with agreement. He will coordinate between different agencies involved and/or appointed. He will have final power over the project and look for the performance of all the agencies. He can take any action according to performance of agencies including termination of services of any or all agencies. He will be final responsible for the quality of whole project.
          Architect :- Will work as a technical representative and guide of the owner/ developer/ builder and control the quality of work. He should be responsible only for this work only. He will only inspect the building periodically but not supervise the building. He should not responsible for the supervision of the building.
          Structural Engineer:- will design the building as per architectural requirement only. He will only inspect the building periodically but not supervise the building. He should be responsible only for the design but not for the quality control.
          Supervising Engineer:- will supervise the building only for the workmanship quality control and material quality control only. This supervising engineer should work as a representative of architect and owner/ developer/ builder. Supervising engineer should be responsible only for the supervision only but not for the planning and structural design. He will have to supervise only as per the architectural and structural detail.
          Contractor:- will work as per details given. He should be responsible only for the quality of workmanship, if contract given on labour bases or he should be responsible for quality of material and workmanship both, if contract given on material + labour. If contract given on labour base, owner will be responsible for the quality of material.
          (c) Soil Investigation report of particular site should be submitted to state authority.
          (d) Agreement between owner/ developer/ builder and licensed architect should be submitted to the state authority.
          (e) Agreement between owner/ developer/ builder and licensed structural engineer should be submitted to the state authority.
          (f) Agreement between owner/ developer/ builder and civil contractor should be submitted to the state authority.
          (g) During construction supervising engineer must be compulsory. Agreement between owner/ developer/ builder and supervising engineer should be submitted to the state authority.
          (h) Construction plan should be passed by state authority.
          (i) All the Architectural plan, Elevation, sections, doors and windows details, electrical plan, plumbing and sanitation plan, specification of every work should be submitted to state authority. All the architectural work should be signed by the owner/ developer/ builder + Architect.
          (j) Only state authority (not architect or developer or owner or builder) should issue all architectural plans as well as soil investigation report to the concern structural engineer.
          (k) Structural engineer should design the building only as per the architectural plan and soil investigation report issued by state authority.
          (l) Structural engineer will submit completely designed, detailed and drafted set to state authority.
          (m) State authority will send structural design drawing to architect to check it for architectural requirement.
          (n) If architect will raise any question, state authority will resend to structural engineer for changes.
          (o) If found OK, state authority will proof check the structural design and pass it for execution. Proof checking of structural design should be must in any building. No work should be executed on site without proof check.
          (p) State authority will issue all the drawings (architectural and structural) to owner/ developer/ builder, supervising engineer and civil contractor/ electrical contractor/ plumbing and sanitation contractor.
          (q) Civil contractor will construct the building as per the received drawings.
          (r) Electrical contractor will work as per the received details.
          (s) Plumbing and sanitation contractor will work as per the received details.
          (t) Supervising Engineer will supervise all activities related to the building.
          (u) During construction, at every stage or at an interval of maximum 15 days- contractor and supervising engineer will prepare report (in the form of text, photographs and video) and submit it to the architect. After receiving report from contractor and supervising engineer, architect will certify that work is carried out as per architectural & structural requirement and specification. Thereafter architect will submit to the state authority.
          (v) Any changes required during project should be reported to state authority before execution. Execution should be done only after approval.


          All the above suggestions have so many benefits like reduction in corruptions, title cleared property, reduction of civil cases in courts, trust of every one over person to whom he is going to deal with and nation, no cheating with any one, no black money in the real estate, raise of national income, systematic record of all the real estate properties, best quality of construction, proper action after any calamities and so on.
          Jaydeep Vyas
          09825269461

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          Jalal Pathdefiner
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          Joined: 06 Apr 2011
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          PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:28 am    Post subject: OPEN HOUSE MEET Reply with quote

          going to Join SEFI In Delhi. 

          On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 4:45 PM, bsec <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
          [quote]            Dear All,

          This is to confirm that the "OPEN HOUSE MEET" on 17th of March 2015 is scheduled to be held at PHD HOUSE, 4/2 SIRI INSTITUTIONAL AREA, AUGUST KRANTI MARG, (SIRI FORT ROAD), NEW DELHI-110016.


          Best Wishes


          Alok Bhowmick

          On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 4:45 PM, bsec forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:
                --auto removed--

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          SATYAPAUL
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          PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:59 pm    Post subject: OPEN HOUSE MEET Reply with quote

          please convey the time of meeting to all. regards satyapaul On Thu, 05 Mar 2015 16:48:42 +0530 "bsec"  wrote >                   Dear All, >  > This is to confirm that the "OPEN HOUSE MEET" on 17thof March 2015 is scheduled to be held at PHD HOUSE, 4/2 SIRI INSTITUTIONAL AREA,�AUGUST KRANTI MARG, (SIRI FORT ROAD), NEW DELHI-110016. >  >  > Best Wishes >  >  > Alok Bhowmick >  > On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 4:45 PM, bsec wrote: >       --auto removed--

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