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Recent email from IAStructE – Registration of Engineers
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vegad
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:23 am    Post subject: Recent email from IAStructE – Registration of Engineers Reply with quote

Dear Members,

Recently, IAStructE members received an email with subject ‘FREEDOM TO CHOOSE – Registration of Engineers with IE(I), CEAI & ECI’

May we request all members on SEFI who are chairing any level of responsibility in these four institutions to share their opinion on following points?; Questioning existence and intentions of all such entities is not intended and shall not be perceived so.

1) What are the advantages for an engineer having dual membership of both IAStructE and any one among IE(I), CEAI & ECI?

2) What are disadvantages if an engineer sticks to only IAStructE membership, without PE?

3) Does IAStructE membership stands for equivalent professional weightage as compared to other three?

4) Does power to offer PE - Professional Engineer, lie only wit IE(I), CEAI & ECI; if so which law, regulation, council meeting or document empowers them (CEAI & ECI)?

5) Is IAStructE empowered to offer PE certification; if not, any possibility in future?

6) Are professionals of already struggling profession to be expected for multiple membership for almost same purpose (professional engineering services)?

7) Is there any possibility of a unified membership point where members once assessed and registered, can have lateral access to such similar multiple institutions/ organizations wider in engineering domains, possibly with a small extra charge?

I hope these questions are clear and easily understandable. It is requested to be perceived in a positive spirit.

Thank you.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:07 am    Post subject: Re: Recent email from IAStructE – Registration of Engineers Reply with quote

Responding in capacity as SEFI member
vegad wrote:
Dear Members,

Recently, IAStructE members received an email with subject ‘FREEDOM TO CHOOSE – Registration of Engineers with IE(I), CEAI & ECI’
we request all members on SEFI who are chairing any level of responsibility in these four institutions to share their opinion on following points?; Questioning existence and intentions of all such entities is not intended and shall not be perceived so.

1) What are the advantages for an engineer having dual membership of both IAStructE and any one among IE(I), CEAI & ECI?
Response- IEI is not a society but Chartered body, which means legally statutory equivalent
2) What are disadvantages if an engineer sticks to only IAStructE membership, without PE?
Response-PE is not any mandatory requirement in Bharat
3) Does IAStructE membership stands for equivalent professional weightage as compared to other three?
Response-Cannot be compared in such a way
4) Does power to offer PE - Professional Engineer, lie only wit IE(I), CEAI & ECI; if so which law, regulation, council meeting or document empowers them (CEAI & ECI)?
Response-Currently, it is a legal domain of IEI per IPEA Agreement
5) Is IAStru,ctE empowered to offer PE certification; if not, any possibility in future?
Response-Refer to foregoing responses
6) Are  professionals of already struggling profession to be expected for multiple membership for almost same purpose (professional engineering services)?

7) Is there any possibility of a unified membership point where members once assessed and registered, can have lateral access to such similar multiple institutions/ organizations wider in engineering domains, possibly with a small extra charge?

I hope these questions are clear and easily understandable. It is requested to be perceived in a positive spirit.

Thank you.
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vegad
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Posts: 138

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your replies to most of my questions.

For your first answer:
'IEI is not a society but Chartered body, which means legally statutory equivalent'

With the help of some of my legal friends, I came across few resources which states that ‘legally statutory equivalent’ status has been explicitly segregated in some legal citations.

Calcutta High court has also cleared that the institution cannot claim to be of a status higher than a company (having registered in companies act) or a registered society.

Though, I didn’t find any other source which proves its equivalency, except itself stating so (equivalent to act of parliament) and career progression of public engineering officers based on its membership categories.

Fourth answer:
'Currently, it is a legal domain of IEI per IPEA Agreement'

For this, I agree that ‘agreement’ can be covered in legal domain, as well as IEI’s extension of its legality to representing member nations.

_ - _ - _

Dear Engineers,

To reiterate, this post shall not be perceived nor is intended as questioning existence and intentions of all such entities. It seeks to chart out what undermines their efforts over decades.

In fact its saddening that be it the oldest institutions with long history of experts or the councils, societies and institutions (representing experts and private service providers in respective engineering fields) are sandboxed and yet yearns for a legal instrument to be effect under a legislative force under constitution.

We should not get surprised that the adage ‘the structure won’t come down on its own’ has been proved wrong and would continue to do so in both public and private projects.

Thank you.
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suraj
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 8:17 am    Post subject: Refer to Charter Please!!! Reply with quote

Dear Eng Vegad
Hope you must have analysed IEI Charter 1935
What others state, I do not care
Try to understand construction of Charter & then we can brainstorm
Even Madras High court was  incorporated by its Charter
Bombay & Calcutta high courts were also, chartered
At some point of time, even SC was chartered
Currently, only SCI can deliver IEI Charter status & no other source
Moreover, lawyer's syllabus does not include Chapter on Charter
I may send to you one power point file with analysis of Charter
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sir,

Yes, I have thoroughly analysed the charter and agree with you on various charters.

Incorporation by the 'king' was an executive and unfortunately not a legislative function. Moreover, prerogatives issued from the 'crown' incorprating a company has lost its efficacy and liability after constitution was in effect.

I would be happy to know of any further legislative action which might have made it equivalent to an act.

Thank you.
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 5:51 am    Post subject: Charter & COI Reply with quote

Dear Eng Vegad
Just simply stating that it is executive & not legislative function is no conclusion by in itself
Order by King is an integral part of Law & in this case Existing Law
Kindly refer to COI definition of Law & Existing law
And, in case, if not satisfied, move SCI for a final judgment on this issue
IEI cannot issue illegal certificates, when Charter is invalid
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vegad
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sir,

Thank you for the reference of COI, I found similar references of COI in the case I cited. Legality was never under query, only statute was. Your guidance was quite helpful.

Dear all

So I arrived at following stop-gap inferences, following is the summary:

1) CEng (IEI) is helpful is for almost all gov. works as has been followed by govt departments.


2) PE/PInt. (IEI) should be helpful for projects funded my MLFAs (Multilateral Financing Agencies), due to its international association. Needs Exam.

I was not able to notice any exchange between IEI and ECI.

3) PE/APE (ECI) may be helpful and may/may not be equivalent to CEng (IEI). ECI is a nodal institution recognized by Planning Commission of India, chasing the 'BILL'.  After the success of Bill it may gain great importance as a possible regulatory authority.

IAStructE and CEAI are member institutions of ECI.

4) CEAI enrolls as Member/ Affiliate member; one may get excellent guidance for engineering business transactions right up to international projects. Its specialty - among all is FIDIC and affiliation with IEI. Strong in commercial as well as general technical aspects, necessary for business guidance.

5) IAStructE - Structure Specific Institution;

Hope the summary helps most of those who need it.

Thank you.
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suraj
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 8:17 am    Post subject: CE & PE Reply with quote

CE & PE
Dear Eng Vegad
I like to add followings only for reference
Chartered Engineer (IEI) is incorrect title
It is Chartered Engineer (India)
Similarly, it is Professional Engineer (India) & IntPE(India)
I shall be glad on that day when Engineers Act is notified, if so positively
But, last revision of draft had been inappropriate to status of Engineer, since it contained only regularity respecting Engineer, who should be BE only & no other designation
You must have noticed definition of 'Engineer' covered within Real Estate Regulatory Act, which is BE & nothing else
I have not seen application of FIDIC in Bharat & even, during arbitration proceedings, noticed that even legal illuminaries are ignorant about it,
For judges & advocates, it is unknown world
People in India sadly, do not understand contracts in general & even engineers do not understand
You may survey few engineers for clarification
I do not hope for Engineers Act in future in India, until IPEA forces this nation to bring in legal mandate for Engineer regulations
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 12:32 pm    Post subject: A 2012 year HC Judgment related to IEI Reply with quote

A 2012 year HC Judgment related to IEI
IEI Charter having force of a statute
http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=54401
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 12:39 pm    Post subject: PI Speech while Inagurating 27th Indian Engineering Congress Reply with quote

PI Speech while Inagurating 27th  Indian Engineering Congress
http://presidentofindia.nic.in/speeches-detail.htm?47
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