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Note on the recently conducted Webinar of IS 456 and 1343

 
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sefi_admin
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 5:42 pm    Post subject: Note on the recently conducted Webinar of IS 456 and 1343 Reply with quote

Dear All,
Thanks so much to the panelists and each and every one of the attendees for making the SEFI's first Webinar such a resounding success. Except for a technical glitch at my end, the seven hour webinar could not have been more smooth. 
We are all aware of the number of free webinars offered each day. Surely there is something to learn from each one of them. But SEFI's marathon webinar from 10 am to 5 pm stood out  in terms of its depth, new knowledge, quality of presentations and the level of engagement in the Q & A session. As what we had promised in the pre-event messages, this code  is a work-in-progress and your very valuable input has given the code drafting group much to reflect on and make changes to. 

Despite what may have been the impression, I am confident that many of our valid suggestions will find a space in the revised code. We will need more such interactions to break the apprehensions on both sides. I too saw the code for the first time- while it was a bit overwhelming at first, especially with a new mandatory limit state of durability to design for, and three other limit states (applicable if mandated by client or type of project).  I think there will be  a lot of work required from the software companies to change their software to suit the new code when it comes. 

I also want to share with you that there is a lot of indigenous research data that has gone into making  some of the code clauses. The code drafting team from what I saw was keen, through this code,  to herald an era of Indian codes which reflect our own original thinking, our own critical thinking based on our own research and data from within our country, rather than do a copy-paste of international codes. I personally know, for example,  that a lot of data has been sourced from steel cos and regression curves created to come with new modulus of elasticity formula. Hence while  it may have appeared that the resource persons were impatient with recommendations to simply follow an international code, there was an underlying desire to chart our own new path of "Atmanirbhar Bharat" .  

I was very heartened to see so many Senior Industry consultants sitting right through the seminar with full attention, as also young design engineers and even students. This gives us a lot of hope.   

I would like to express our deepest gratitude  to SEFI  minder and keeper Sanjeev Kumar who so calmly and efficiently administered this webinar. 

A few clarifications  since we have been flooded with queries on the same issues. 
  • SEFI does not have copies of the powerpoints which were broadcast directly by the Resource Persons. 
  • SEFI does not have a copy of the work-in-progress Draft
  • SEFI  recorded the Seminar for legal purpose only on behalf of the resource persons. It has a pre-webinar agreement with the resource persons that no part of it shall be aired or shared by SEFI. 
  • SEFI shall try to provide soft copy of certificates of attending this webinar via the website. This is work in progress and expect it to be announced in 3-4 weeks.


As discussed we invite some of you to initiate a new thread for more  questions on the proposed revised I 456 and 1343 code (I don't think they have as yet started working on 1343) which we can then send as a consolidate document to the resource persons. I would also welcome attendees to summarise the webinar and raise issues or concerns on issues discussed. 
The resource persons have offered to have another seminar in about 8 weeks time. Watch this space. 
warm regards,
Alpa Sheth
SEFI Admin

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N. Prabhakar
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Ms. Alpa Sheth,

Thank you for your detailed posting on the recently held webinar on proposed revision of IS 456.

As you know, I couldn't attend the webinar for the reasons mentioned earlier to you by E-mail.  But, I have some doubts about the webinar presentation which I would like write below:

It is understood that draft document presented in the webinar was 888 pages and it is expected that the final draft may be 1000 pages with the inclusion of some more topics like shear friction and anchors in concrete, etc.  It is believed that these documents are without any commentary.  Using such a large code with 1000 pages would be very scary and nightmarish to practicing structural engineers engaged in design.  The present IS 456 is only 100 pages and IS 1343 is only 60 pages,  If the proposed code includes also design charts and tables  as in SP - 16 (Design Aids), it would another 230 pages. The total of all these present codes is only 390 pages.  I just wonder what is added in the remaining 610 pages of the 1000 page draft document.  Please correct me if I am wrong in any of the above statement.

Please clarify on this matter at the earliest.

With best wishes,

N. Prabhakar, BE CEng(I) MIStructE (UK)  MIE (Ind)
Chartered Structural Engineer
Vasai (E), Pin 401 208  .
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Dr. N. Subramanian
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

N. Prabhakar wrote:
Dear Ms. Alpa Sheth,

Thank you for your detailed posting on the recently held webinar on proposed revision of IS 456.

As you know, I couldn't attend the webinar for the reasons mentioned earlier to you by E-mail.  But, I have some doubts about the webinar presentation which I would like write below:

It is understood that draft document presented in the webinar was 888 pages and it is expected that the final draft may be 1000 pages with the inclusion of some more topics like shear friction and anchors in concrete, etc.  It is believed that these documents are without any commentary.  Using such a large code with 1000 pages would be very scary and nightmarish to practicing structural engineers engaged in design.  The present IS 456 is only 100 pages and IS 1343 is only 60 pages,  If the proposed code includes also design charts and tables  as in SP - 16 (Design Aids), it would another 230 pages. The total of all these present codes is only 390 pages.  I just wonder what is added in the remaining 610 pages of the 1000 page draft document.  Please correct me if I am wrong in any of the above statement.

Please clarify on this matter at the earliest.

With best wishes,

N. Prabhakar, BE CEng(I) MIStructE (UK)  MIE (Ind)
Chartered Structural Engineer
Vasai (E), Pin 401 208  .
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Dr. N. Subramanian
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear All,

Whatever I typed is lost. I do not have patience to retype the long message.

I also second Er Prabhakar on the number of pages of IS 456.
I only want the code to be less than 200-250 pages and have simple clauses than complex clauses.



I would request the professors, who are engaged in writing the code not to make it like their research report, as we, the designers are going to use it daily in our job, and we may not have your qualifications. We need quick and simple solutions. IS 456 served well for the past 40+ years. The  failures/collapses in India were not due to the code clauses but due to the problems at the sites.

I want the other designers to respond now. There is no use of crying later that the code has become complex.

Regards
Subramanian



Dr. N. Subramanian wrote:
N. Prabhakar wrote:
Dear Ms. Alpa Sheth,

Thank you for your detailed posting on the recently held webinar on proposed revision of IS 456.

As you know, I couldn't attend the webinar for the reasons mentioned earlier to you by E-mail.  But, I have some doubts about the webinar presentation which I would like write below:

It is understood that draft document presented in the webinar was 888 pages and it is expected that the final draft may be 1000 pages with the inclusion of some more topics like shear friction and anchors in concrete, etc.  It is believed that these documents are without any commentary.  Using such a large code with 1000 pages would be very scary and nightmarish to practicing structural engineers engaged in design.  The present IS 456 is only 100 pages and IS 1343 is only 60 pages,  If the proposed code includes also design charts and tables  as in SP - 16 (Design Aids), it would another 230 pages. The total of all these present codes is only 390 pages.  I just wonder what is added in the remaining 610 pages of the 1000 page draft document.  Please correct me if I am wrong in any of the above statement.

Please clarify on this matter at the earliest.

With best wishes,

N. Prabhakar, BE CEng(I) MIStructE (UK)  MIE (Ind)
Chartered Structural Engineer
Vasai (E), Pin 401 208  .
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thirumalaichettiar
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr.M.S and Er.Prabhar,


I attended the webinar. As far as  my listening of the presentation the 1000 page new code book  includes:

1. New revision of IS 456.

2. Commentary.

3. Inclusion of Prestressing code so as not to have separate code for prestressed one.

4. Examples etc

T.RangaRajan.
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thirumalaichettiar
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. N. Subramanian wrote:
Dear All,

Whatever I typed is lost. I do not have patience to retype the long message.

I also second Er Prabhakar on the number of pages of IS 456.
I only want the code to be less than 200-250 pages and have simple clauses than complex clauses.



I would request the professors, who are engaged in writing the code not to make it like their research report, as we, the designers are going to use it daily in our job, and we may not have your qualifications. We need quick and simple solutions. IS 456 served well for the past 40+ years. The  failures/collapses in India were not due to the code clauses but due to the problems at the sites.

I want the other designers to respond now. There is no use of crying later that the code has become complex.

Regards
Subramanian



Dr. N. Subramanian wrote:
N. Prabhakar wrote:
Dear Ms. Alpa Sheth,

Thank you for your detailed posting on the recently held webinar on proposed revision of IS 456.

As you know, I couldn't attend the webinar for the reasons mentioned earlier to you by E-mail.  But, I have some doubts about the webinar presentation which I would like write below:

It is understood that draft document presented in the webinar was 888 pages and it is expected that the final draft may be 1000 pages with the inclusion of some more topics like shear friction and anchors in concrete, etc.  It is believed that these documents are without any commentary.  Using such a large code with 1000 pages would be very scary and nightmarish to practicing structural engineers engaged in design.  The present IS 456 is only 100 pages and IS 1343 is only 60 pages,  If the proposed code includes also design charts and tables  as in SP - 16 (Design Aids), it would another 230 pages. The total of all these present codes is only 390 pages.  I just wonder what is added in the remaining 610 pages of the 1000 page draft document.  Please correct me if I am wrong in any of the above statement.

Please clarify on this matter at the earliest.

With best wishes,

N. Prabhakar, BE CEng(I) MIStructE (UK)  MIE (Ind)
Chartered Structural Engineer
Vasai (E), Pin 401 208  .


Sir,
I am also facing the same when I add a new topic it is not posted and getting error messages.

T.RanhaRajan.  
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thirumalaichettiar
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="thirumalaichettiar"]Dr.M.S and Er.Prabhar,


I attended the webinar. As far as  my listening of the presentation the 1000 page of new code book  includes:

1. New revision of IS 456.

2. Commentary.

3. Inclusion of Prestressing code so as not to have separate code for prestressed one.

4. Examples etc

T.RangaRajan.
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N. Prabhakar
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sefians,

It s noted from Er. T. Rangarajan's posting that the draft document presented in the Webinar comprises the new Codes of IS 456, IS 1343, Commentary and Examples.  This format, including Commentary and Examples, is not usually adopted in BIS Codes.  It appears that the draft document is more in the format of a PhD Thesis Report made in IITs. Dr. N. Subramanian has also expressed the same view on the draft document.

BIS has to inform the Code committee to redraft the draft document with the exclusion of Commentary and Examples, and making the draft document exclusively for Codes only of about 200 pages. This draft document is however subject to general circulation and approval as per BIS's normal practice.   If BIS wishes, Commentary part can be published separately, along with the publication of codes.  

The above suggestion will be useful and in right format to do design by Structural Engineers.  I would like to hear views of fellow Sefians on this matter.

I trust that BIS and the Code committee will publish the Code in the format that is suggested.

With best wishes,

N. Prabhakar, BE CEng(I)  MIStructE (UK)  MIE (Ind)
Chartered Stuctural Engineer
Vasai (E), Pin 401208
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nurat
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 8:50 am    Post subject: IS 456 Reply with quote

thirumalaichettiar wrote:
Dr. N. Subramanian wrote:
Dear All,

Whatever I typed is lost. I do not have patience to retype the long message.

I also second Er Prabhakar on the number of pages of IS 456.
I only want the code to be less than 200-250 pages and have simple clauses than complex clauses.



I would request the professors, who are engaged in writing the code not to make it like their research report, as we, the designers are going to use it daily in our job, and we may not have your qualifications. We need quick and simple solutions. IS 456 served well for the past 40+ years. The  failures/collapses in India were not due to the code clauses but due to the problems at the sites.

I want the other designers to respond now. There is no use of crying later that the code has become complex.

Regards
Subramanian



Dr. N. Subramanian wrote:
N. Prabhakar wrote:
Dear Ms. Alpa Sheth,

Thank you for your detailed posting on the recently held webinar on proposed revision of IS 456.

As you know, I couldn't attend the webinar for the reasons mentioned earlier to you by E-mail.  But, I have some doubts about the webinar presentation which I would like write below:

It is understood that draft document presented in the webinar was 888 pages and it is expected that the final draft may be 1000 pages with the inclusion of some more topics like shear friction and anchors in concrete, etc.  It is believed that these documents are without any commentary.  Using such a large code with 1000 pages would be very scary and nightmarish to practicing structural engineers engaged in design.  The present IS 456 is only 100 pages and IS 1343 is only 60 pages,  If the proposed code includes also design charts and tables  as in SP - 16 (Design Aids), it would another 230 pages. The total of all these present codes is only 390 pages.  I just wonder what is added in the remaining 610 pages of the 1000 page draft document.  Please correct me if I am wrong in any of the above statement.

Please clarify on this matter at the earliest.

With best wishes,

N. Prabhakar, BE CEng(I) MIStructE (UK)  MIE (Ind)
Chartered Structural Engineer
Vasai (E), Pin 401 208  .


Sir,
I am also facing the same when I add a new topic it is not posted and getting error messages.

T.RanhaRajan.  
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vineetha_palankar
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Joined: 29 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Respected SEFIANS,

In my view it's always better to separate the code from commentary. Not just the number of pages are more. Practically also all engineers (Students, practising engineers, site engineers etc) would like to have a copy of code to remember the clause and read the clause regularly to make a mark or impact in our mind. Say in companies too each team can have one hard copy print of code to study. But requirement of the commentary comes less compared to code , I mean the hard copy printout.  A department with many teams in it all together can have one commentary print if required. Thereby lots of prints can be brought down by making code and commentary separate.

Regards,
Vineetha
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