www.sefindia.org

STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING FORUM OF INDIA [SEFI]

 Forum SubscriptionsSubscriptions DigestDigest Preferences   FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups  RegisterRegister FAQSecurity Tips FAQDonate
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log in to websiteLog in to websiteLog in to websiteLog in to forum 
Warning: Make sure you scan the downloaded attachment with updated antivirus tools  before opening them. They may contain viruses.
Use online scanners
here and here to upload downloaded attachment to check for safety.

A building under construction collapses.

 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    www.sefindia.org Forum Index -> Past Discussions Year 2006
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
prof.arc
...
...


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 703

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:08 am    Post subject: A building under construction collapses. Reply with quote

Dear Mr. Hari,

It is unfortunate that such accidents occur - only good thing is that the
number of such accidents are small compared to the abuse in construction
practices. I hope you have visited some construction site informally [and
not as a part of official delegation] and chatted with the workmen [maistry]
in-charge and then you will realise that what we read/teach has not
perculated down the line. The people who actually execute the job, are NOT
members of this forum and may not know English. Those who know, do not need
to be told about good construction practice as it is the lack of
implementation that is the curse.

I liked the quote today in a newspaper -

*There are thing we know that we know. *

*There are known unknowns**... things that we now know **we don't know. *

*But there are also **unknown unknowns. *

*There are **things we don't know we don't know*

Sincerely

ARC
On Fri Nov 10 05:41:09 2006, sabharim[AT]gma... <sabharim[AT]gma...> wrote:

Quote:
Dear All,
I think it is important to discuss simple construction site safety aspects
also in our forum -while we struggle with Seismic Safety.
Another labourer dies.("It's only a labourer" -seems to be the
attitude....).Another family will slowly die away.
Who is responsible?
Let us ensure this does not happen in our sites. (Or will our attitude
remain "let us *hope* this does not happen in our sites"?)
Best,
Hari


Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
skjain.iitk
General Sponsor
General Sponsor


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:33 pm    Post subject: A building under construction collapses. Reply with quote

Dear Hari and Prof ARC:

There is a systematic approach adopted in many other countries to avoid
and minimise such episodes, by regulating
the construction activity in a systematic manner at several levels.
Unfortunately, we in India have preferred to push papers
(creating reports, carrying out microzonation in the name of safety,
etc) rather than to implement such measures.

Lack of such systems is one single most important failure of civil
engineering leadership in our country:
failure to emphasize to the country the need for such measures. We all
know these measures; competence
based licensing of engineers and other building industry professionals,
regulation by municipal authorities, robust legal framework, etc.
While India is in a hurry to go into a developed country mode, a very
basic issue of safety of our constructions is being totally forgotten.

For every building that collapses, there are numerous other buildings
that are standing but which do not meet the minimum safety expected
from such buildings.

Best regards,

Sudhir

prof.arc[AT]gma... wrote:

Quote:
Dear Mr. Hari,

It is unfortunate that such accidents occur - only good thing is that the
number of such accidents are small compared to the abuse in construction
practices. I hope you have visited some construction site informally [and
not as a part of official delegation] and chatted with the workmen [maistry]
in-charge and then you will realise that what we read/teach has not
perculated down the line. The people who actually execute the job, are NOT
members of this forum and may not know English. Those who know, do not need
to be told about good construction practice as it is the lack of
implementation that is the curse.

I liked the quote today in a newspaper -

*There are thing we know that we know. *

*There are known unknowns**... things that we now know **we don't know. *

*But there are also **unknown unknowns. *

*There are **things we don't know we don't know*

Sincerely

ARC
On Fri Nov 10 05:41:09 2006, sabharim[AT]gma... <sabharim[AT]gma...> wrote:

Quote:
Dear All,
I think it is important to discuss simple construction site safety aspects
also in our forum -while we struggle with Seismic Safety.
Another labourer dies.("It's only a labourer" -seems to be the
attitude....).Another family will slowly die away.
Who is responsible?
Let us ensure this does not happen in our sites. (Or will our attitude
remain "let us *hope* this does not happen in our sites"?)
Best,
Hari



Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ajitkbhattacharyya
...
...


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:12 am    Post subject: A building under construction collapses. Reply with quote

Dear Sudhir,

I had mentioned earlier about Cross reportings on
behalf of Insitution of Structural Engineers U.k.
Such reportings will develop a spirit of safety
consciousness amongst the consulting practitioners.
All failures of such nature must be investigated
impartially and brought out for the information of
construction agencies involved.
It is a pity in this country even on a devastating
fire causing destruction of Vigyan Bhavan none at the
responsible level was punished and real neglect
brought out.The code makers must take a note of all
failures and bring it to the notice  of all
concerned.None should be left free for  their inaction
, neglect.

A.K.Bhattacharyya
--- skjain[AT]iit... wrote:


With kind regards

A.K.BHATTACHARYYA

F.I.StructE (UK), FIE (India), FIBE, FIRT
H-2A, Hauzkhas, New Delhi -16, Ph:011-26854127

Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com

Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
prof.arc
...
...


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 703

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:21 am    Post subject: A building under construction collapses. Reply with quote

There is no doubt that quality of construction in most multi-story building
construction is not upto the mark. Rarely, the design engineer visits the
site. The site engineer mostly pushes papers. Less said about the approving
municipal agencies.
Do we have actual test results [not fudged] of the concrete mix whenever a
floor is cast ? I consider it more important that test results must be
available for columns [the columns are raised between two successive
pourings of slabs]
Do we inspect that the reinforcements are placed as originally intended by
the designer. Quite often, if one asks the Maistry, he says the
reinforcement drawings is not implementable. The most important aspect of
construction is to ensure integrity of joint.
FORTUNATELY, in spite of abuse, the system has so much factor of safety that
the structure does not fail after removal of shuttering and static loads
comes into play.
How to implement the concept of quality in construction is a matter all of
us should be concerened.
ARC
PS:
We talk about Structures only in this forum. We must address the shame of
Road Construction which is very much civil engineering. Why should we
continue to suffer the rutted roads during monsoon ?

On Fri Nov 10 23:03:50 2006, skjain[AT]iit... <skjain[AT]iit...> wrote:
Quote:

Dear Hari and Prof ARC:


Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sdec
SEFI Regulars
SEFI Regulars


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:34 am    Post subject: A building under construction collapses. Reply with quote

Dear ARC
It is very true that site people find the dcutile r/f of columns quite
unimplementable,u've said,right? I came across one such case during my site
visit to a Rpprkee Pharma project, and explained to the mistry as well as
the Site Engineer how we should do the stirrups and why it is important to
do it right.However during my last visit, i was pained to note that he had
not been following what I had asked him to do; i.e. in all probability, all
the stirrups for all the columns in such a large project have been bent only
at 90 degrees. despite my numerous visits and my attempts to explain
practically, I have not been able to get the right bending of stirrup
ends....in such a case what should the designer do?
Regards
Sangeeta

Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mkalgal
Silver Sponsor
Silver Sponsor


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:57 am    Post subject: A building under construction collapses. Reply with quote

Dear Sangeeta Madam,
One possibility is to put the observation in writing with a copy to
the concerned(?) owners that you would not be held responsible for any
consequential damages during earthquake since seismic detailing as
given in drawing is not possible. Even if it does not "shake up" the
people, it would save your skin!
Regards
Kalgal

On Sat Nov 11 11:04:54 2006, sdec.in[AT]gma... <sdec.in[AT]gma...> wrote:
[quote]Dear ARC
It is very true that site people find the dcutile r/f of columns quite
unimplementable,u've said,right? I came across one such case during my site
visit to a Rpprkee Pharma project, and explained to the mistry as well as
the Site Engineer how we should do the stirrups and why it is important to
do it right.However during my last visit, i was pained to note that he had
not been following what I had asked him to do; i.e. in all probability, all
the stirrups for all the columns in such a large project have been bent only
at 90 degrees. despite my numerous visits and my attempts to explain
practically, I have not been able to get the right bending of stirrup
ends....in such a case what should the designer do?
Regards
Sangeeta

Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mkalgal
Silver Sponsor
Silver Sponsor


Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:59 am    Post subject: A building under construction collapses. Reply with quote

‘Dear Sangeeta Madam,
Please replace thw word "possible" with "provided" in my previous mail
Regards
Kalgal

Posted via Email
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    www.sefindia.org Forum Index -> Past Discussions Year 2006 All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


© 2003, 2008 SEFINDIA, Indian Domain Registration
Publishing or acceptance of an advertisement is neither a guarantee nor endorsement of the advertiser's product or service. advertisement policy