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On 10th Anniversary of Bhuj Earthquake of 2001
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rcvishwakarma
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Joined: 06 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:51 pm    Post subject: On 10th Anniversary of Bhuj Earthquake of 2001 Reply with quote

structural engineers have sucked the world by making highrise... and unsustainable design as per american design methodology...  On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 23:10:30 +0530 wrote >                  Dear Eng. Bharatihej  > I am not an engineer but have enough knowledge to understand your points – which much much knowledge based, for a lay man – we have to use the old traditional method for dedecting the earth quake and tsunami – it does ot need much equipments – there are several species of animals, birds who have very advance warning and our village wells water level sudden changes and natural signs are all to be recorded –  >  > If we have several places observers feeding the the centre – then the experts can make out the warning  >  > Casualties can be avoided – even without a earth quake Mumbai have several building comes down there are very visible sign of the accident but no one take advance step to demolise the building – the best way is to put the ower of that building to force im to stay in his building and take the risk but the owner are in a strong building not careing for the old tenants this is the problem  >  > Solution is that there must be a longer railway track which take the people faster to outside the city and then have small villas building and people come and go to the city  >  > Hameed  > Espac Building Material Co  > Dammam – Saudi Arabia  >  >  > From: bharatthej [mailto:forum@sefindia.org]  > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:36 PM > To: announcement@sefindia.org > Subject: [SEFI] Re: On 10th Anniversary of Bhuj Earthquake of 2001  >  >  > @ Abdul Hadi: Before talking about earthquake lets realise that we see that phenomena in day to day life. What is Shear??? It is change in Shape WITHOUT change in volume (No compression obviously). Apply Pure shear to any body, a wave is generated, which propagates in a direction where the particle displacement is zero (A transverse wave). Its velocity depends on the elasticity or rather the Shear modulus of the material And hence it is called A Shear Wave or a "S" Wave. A crystal for example can have 3 isotropic properties in three dimensions and hence have different shear modulus (or shear wave velocity) in those three axis. Earths crust by itself has diverse geography hence making it difficult to judge the time taken by shear wave or the S wave to reach the detection centre. Remember that water has Zero Shear modulus and hence earthquake originated in water is not that dangerous. But the compressive wave or the primary "P" wave is often associated with huge mass transfer (based on the Bulk modulus) and hence the resultant wave tsunami becomes that dangerous.More the damping due to mass, ore the time taken by it to travel unlike S waves. (high mass transfer with speed). Geologists typically decide the physical properties of a material purely based on the the two wave velocity measurements. Detecting the S wave obviously can pay wave to warning systems, but a little more research is required for detection ( shearwave measurement techniques in case of varied orthotropic materials) but i am sure it is not completly out of scope.  >  > Thanks, >  >  > Bharat Thej  >  >  > Structural Engineer >  >  > Dar-Al-Handasah >  > On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 9:38 PM, hadi08 forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote: >       --auto removed--

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sivakumar.adiki
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:34 am    Post subject: On 10th Anniversary of Bhuj Earthquake of 2001 Reply with quote

Hello engineers,

good morning to all











hadi08 wrote: [quote]    Seismic waves are caused by the sudden disturbance in earth, causing waves which travel through the earth. I am really not aware we can predict the exact time of earthquake. The more important issue is how to prevent casualties. Many casualties are caused by damaged done to the structures. We can go with light gauge steel for construction which is earthquake resistant.


Abdul Hadi Syed
Structural Engineer EIT
EFS Structures Inc

On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 10:53 PM, hameed mohamed younus forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:
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gautam chattopadhyay
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:14 am    Post subject: On 10th Anniversary of Bhuj Earthquake of 2001 Reply with quote

The phrases like dynamic analysis, Newman's Method, Duhamel Integral etc., sound very high but at field these do not enjoy any importance. The engineers working in contractor organisations are mostly a semi-literate mass who believe that IS and IRC codes have provided a factor of safety of 2.5 to 5 through their clauses. Mindset of these people needs be changed, if needed forcibly by penalisisng the company and the project in-charge by exemplary punishment of black listing for 10 years. Otherwise only seminar, symposia etc., will be fruitless. You should contact ISET which is an organisation dedicated to earthquake engineering only in this regard.

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 11:08 PM, hameed mohamed younus <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
[quote]  Dear Eng. Bharatihej
I am not an engineer but have enough knowledge to understand your points which much much knowledge based, for a lay man we have to use the old traditional method for dedecting the earth quake and tsunami it does ot need much equipments there are several species of animals, birds who have very advance warning and our village wells water level sudden changes and natural signs are all to be recorded

If we have several places observers feeding the the centre then the experts can make out the warning

Casualties can be avoided even without a earth quake Mumbai have several building comes down there are very visible sign of the accident but no one take advance step to demolise the building the best way is to put the ower of that building to force im to stay in his building and take the risk but the owner are in a strong building not careing for the old tenants this is the problem

Solution is that there must be a longer railway track which take the people faster to outside the city and then have small villas building and people come and go to the city

Hameed
Espac Building Material Co
Dammam Saudi Arabia


From: bharatthej [mailto:forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)]
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:36 PM
To: announcement@sefindia.org (announcement@sefindia.org)
Subject: [SEFI] Re: On 10th Anniversary of Bhuj Earthquake of 2001



@ Abdul Hadi: Before talking about earthquake lets realise that we see that phenomena in day to day life. What is Shear??? It is change in Shape WITHOUT change in volume (No compression obviously). Apply Pure shear to any body, a wave is generated, which propagates in a direction where the particle displacement is zero (A transverse wave). Its velocity depends on the elasticity or rather the Shear modulus of the material And hence it is called A Shear Wave or a "S" Wave. A crystal for example can have 3 isotropic properties in three dimensions and hence have different shear modulus (or shear wave velocity) in those three axis. Earths crust by itself has diverse geography hence making it difficult to judge the time taken by shear wave or the S wave to reach the detection centre. Remember that water has Zero Shear modulus and hence earthquake originated in water is not that dangerous. But the compressive wave or the primary "P" wave is often associated with huge mass transfer (based on the Bulk modulus) and hence the resultant wave tsunami becomes that dangerous.More the damping due to mass, ore the time taken by it to travel unlike S waves. (high mass transfer with speed). Geologists typically decide the physical properties of a material purely based on the the two wave velocity measurements. Detecting the S wave obviously can pay wave to warning systems, but a little more research is required for detection ( shearwave measurement techniques in case of varied orthotropic materials) but i am sure it is not completly out of scope.

Thanks,


Bharat Thej


Structural Engineer


Dar-Al-Handasah


On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 9:38 PM, hadi08 forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org) (forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)))> wrote:

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gautam chattopadhyay
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:41 am    Post subject: On 10th Anniversary of Bhuj Earthquake of 2001 Reply with quote

There are specified, in fact well specified detailing techniques which marginalise the damages due to earthquake. Earthquake is a natural phenomenon that must occur, no engineer can resist it. Engineers can build their structures in such a way that damages will be minimum. To all structural engineers dealing with building structures I like to appeal to follow provisions of codes meticulously and religiously. If a building collapse, several people lose their lives the designer and builder cannot escape from their responsibilities siting instance of defect libility preriod and guarantee period. The responsibility is more social and ethical than techno-legal.

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 12:01 PM, gautam chattopadhyay <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
   The phrases like dynamic analysis, Newman's Method, Duhamel Integral etc., sound very high but at field these do not enjoy any importance. The engineers working in contractor organisations are mostly a semi-literate mass who believe that IS and IRC codes have provided a factor of safety of 2.5 to 5 through their clauses. Mindset of these people needs be changed, if needed forcibly by penalisisng the company and the project in-charge by exemplary punishment of black listing for 10 years. Otherwise only seminar, symposia etc., will be fruitless. You should contact ISET which is an organisation dedicated to earthquake engineering only in this regard.

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 11:08 PM, hameed mohamed younus forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:

Quote:
Dear Eng. Bharatihej
I am not an engineer but have enough knowledge to understand your points which much much knowledge based, for a lay man we have to use the old traditional method for dedecting the earth quake and tsunami it does ot need much equipments there are several species of animals, birds who have very advance warning and our village wells water level sudden changes and natural signs are all to be recorded

If we have several places observers feeding the the centre then the experts can make out the warning

Casualties can be avoided even without a earth quake Mumbai have several building comes down there are very visible sign of the accident but no one take advance step to demolise the building the best way is to put the ower of that building to force im to stay in his building and take the risk but the owner are in a strong building not careing for the old tenants this is the problem

Solution is that there must be a longer railway track which take the people faster to outside the city and then have small villas building and people come and go to the city

Hameed
Espac Building Material Co
Dammam Saudi Arabia



From: bharatthej [mailto:forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org) (forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))]
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:36 PM

To: announcement@sefindia.org (announcement@sefindia.org) (announcement@sefindia.org (announcement@sefindia.org))
Subject: [SEFI] Re: On 10th Anniversary of Bhuj Earthquake of 2001



@ Abdul Hadi: Before talking about earthquake lets realise that we see that phenomena in day to day life. What is Shear??? It is change in Shape WITHOUT change in volume (No compression obviously). Apply Pure shear to any body, a wave is generated, which propagates in a direction where the particle displacement is zero (A transverse wave). Its velocity depends on the elasticity or rather the Shear modulus of the material And hence it is called A Shear Wave or a "S" Wave. A crystal for example can have 3 isotropic properties in three dimensions and hence have different shear modulus (or shear wave velocity) in those three axis. Earths crust by itself has diverse geography hence making it difficult to judge the time taken by shear wave or the S wave to reach the detection centre. Remember that water has Zero Shear modulus and hence earthquake originated in water is not that dangerous. But the compressive wave or the primary "P" wave is often associated with huge mass transfer (based on the Bulk modulus) and hence the resultant wave tsunami becomes that dangerous.More the damping due to mass, ore the time taken by it to travel unlike S waves. (high mass transfer with speed). Geologists typically decide the physical properties of a material purely based on the the two wave velocity measurements. Detecting the S wave obviously can pay wave to warning systems, but a little more research is required for detection ( shearwave measurement techniques in case of varied orthotropic materials) but i am sure it is not completly out of scope.

Thanks,


Bharat Thej


Structural Engineer


Dar-Al-Handasah



On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 9:38 PM, hadi08 forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org) (forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)) (forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org) (forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))))> wrote:

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vikram.jeet
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:59 am    Post subject: On 10th Anniversary of Bhuj Earthquake of 2001 Reply with quote

This is very good point mentioned by Er Gautam Chattopadhyay.

This is the root cause of ignorance of QUALITY, Supervision , Checkings at most of sites.
Even the qualified engineers at site think and talk that safety factor is enormous and thus have  
a casual or No supervision conscience.
Quality control is ignored due to this mal-philosophy which has spread like EPIDEMIC

It is easy to change the mind set of illiterates but how to reform these qualified ones for  
their illusionary thinking.

best regards

vikramjeet



The phrases like dynamic analysis, Newman's Method, Duhamel Integral etc., sound very high but at field these do not enjoy any importance. The engineers working in contractor organisations are mostly a semi-literate mass who believe that IS and IRC codes have provided a factor of safety of 2.5 to 5 through their clauses. Mindset of these people needs be changed, if needed forcibly by penalisisng the company and the project in-charge by exemplary punishment of black listing for 10 years. Otherwise only seminar, symposia etc., will be fruitless. You should contact ISET which is an organisation dedicated to earthquake engineering only in this regard.
--

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Msb123
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:20 am    Post subject: On 10th Anniversary of Bhuj Earthquake of 2001 Reply with quote

<![endif]-->  
Dear Eng. Bharatihej,

In our village all the houses are built with massive stone wall (4 feet wide) by using boulder and loamy soil.
Roof comprises teak wood members over laid by two feet loamy soil.
All the houses are 50-100 years old, people are not wealthy, many forum members suggest strengthening of existing structures.
What is the way of strengthening, please guide me, to save the villagers life, if earthquake occurs.

Please circulate to the forum members.



Thanks and Regards,

M S. Biradar
Rohan Builders (India) Pvt. Ltd.

Corporate Office:
The Reverie, First Floor,
805, Bhandarkar Institute Road,
Pune - 411 004. Maharashtra. India.
Telephone: +91-20-41405140, 25659936, 25659937, 25659938.
Fax : +91-20-25659939.
Mobile : +91-9561098275.
FWP : +91-20-30944501, 30944502 (Reliance).
Email : biradarmallappa@rohanbuilders.com

visit us at www.rohanbuilders.com

P  
Please consider the environment and do not print this email or attachments, if any, unless absolutely necessary.  
Encourage environmental awareness. – “Go Green” !!

CONFIDENTIALITY INFORMATION AND DISCLAIMER:

This communication being sent by ROHAN Group {ROHAN or its subsidiaries and associated companies including Rohan Builders (India) Pvt. Ltd.} is privileged and confidential, and is directed to and for the use of the addressee only. If this message reaches anyone other than the intended recipient, we request the reader not to reproduce, copy, disseminate or in any manner distribute it. We further request such recipient to notify us immediately by return email and delete the original message. ROHAN Group does not guarantee the security of any information transmitted electronically and is not liable for the proper, timely and complete transmission thereof. Before opening any attachments please check them for viruses and defects.

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Surendra S
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:17 am    Post subject: On 10th Anniversary of Bhuj Earthquake of 2001 Reply with quote



Firstly the mind set of builders/developers has to be changed. Majority of them are not ENGINEERS. they see structural engineers like step children (not always with some exceptions). they may even forget thattheir building is standing with all facilities because ofstructuralengineers.


Most irritating question the developer ask is "will you complete this project with XX.. kgs/ Sqm for steel & YY... cum of concrete/ sqm."Most of the developer does not know that the structural engineer get all the inputs LAST and he is supposed to issue GFC first.


On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 1:01 PM, gautam chattopadhyay <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
[quote]            There are specified, in fact well specified detailing techniques which marginalise the damages due to earthquake. Earthquake is a natural phenomenon that must occur, no engineer can resist it. Engineers can build their structures in such a way that damages will be minimum. To all structural engineers dealing with building structures I like to appeal to follow provisions of codes meticulously and religiously. If a building collapse, several people lose their lives the designer and builder cannot escape from their responsibilities siting instance of defect libility preriod and guarantee period. The responsibility is more social and ethical than techno-legal.

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 12:01 PM, gautam chattopadhyay forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:

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SANDEEP
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:23 am    Post subject: On 10th Anniversary of Bhuj Earthquake of 2001 Reply with quote

Dear Sir,

I think you are absolutely right and I want to add one more word that is carelessness of the site managers and the sometimes forced to work under pressure.

The site engineers are not understanding the seriousness and the brutality of the effect of earthquakes and the criticality of the structural design and I think these people should be educated then only we can see some improvement in quality.

Regards,
Sandeep.M
Structural Engineer-L&T

From: vikram.jeet [mailto:forum@sefindia.org]
Sent: 27 January 2011 13:12
To: announcement@sefindia.org
Subject: [SEFI] Re: On 10th Anniversary of Bhuj Earthquake of 2001



This is very good point mentioned by Er Gautam Chattopadhyay.

This is the root cause of ignorance of QUALITY, Supervision , Checkings at most of sites.
Even the qualified engineers at site think and talk that safety factor is enormous and thus have
a casual or No supervision conscience.
Quality control is ignored due to this mal-philosophy which has spread like EPIDEMIC

It is easy to change the mind set of illiterates but how to reform these qualified ones for
their illusionary thinking.

best regards

vikramjeet



The phrases like dynamic analysis, Newman's Method, Duhamel Integral etc., sound very high but at field these do not enjoy any importance. The engineers working in contractor organisations are mostly a semi-literate mass who believe that IS and IRC codes have provided a factor of safety of 2.5 to 5 through their clauses. Mindset of these people needs be changed, if needed forcibly by penalisisng the company and the project in-charge by exemplary punishment of black listing for 10 years. Otherwise only seminar, symposia etc., will be fruitless. You should contact ISET which is an organisation dedicated to earthquake engineering only in this regard.
--   







"This Message and its contents is intended solely for the addressee and is proprietary.Information in this mail is for L&T Business Usage only. Any Use to other than the addressee is misuse and infringement to Proprietorship of L&T ECC.If you are not the addressee please return the mail to the sender.L&T ECC DIVISION"

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cinitha
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:41 am    Post subject: On 10th Anniversary of Bhuj Earthquake of 2001 Reply with quote

Implimenting standard code conforming buildings may be one among several other possibilities .
The older massive structures with less than three storeys have to be studied by paying special attention.
On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 13:02:38 +0530, Msb123 wrote > <![endif]--> > Dear Eng. Bharatihej, > > In our village all the houses are built with massive stone wall (4 feet wide) by using boulder and loamy soil. > Roof comprises teak wood members over laid by two feet loamy soil. > All the houses are 50-100 years old, people are not wealthy, many forum members suggest strengthening of existing structures. > What is the way of strengthening, please guide me, to save the villagers life, if earthquake occurs. > > Please circulate to the forum members. > > Thanks and Regards, > > M S. Biradar > Rohan Builders (India) Pvt. Ltd. > > Corporate Office: > The Reverie, First Floor, > 805, Bhandarkar Institute Road, > Pune - 411 004. Maharashtra. India. > Telephone: +91-20-41405140, 25659936, 25659937, 25659938. > Fax : +91-20-25659939. > Mobile : +91-9561098275. > FWP : +91-20-30944501, 30944502 (Reliance). > Email : biradarmallappa@rohanbuilders.com (biradarmallappa@rohanbuilders.com) > > visit us at www.rohanbuilders.com > > P > Please consider the environment and do not print this email or attachments, if any, unless absolutely necessary. > Encourage environmental awareness. Go Green !! > > CONFIDENTIALITY INFORMATION AND DISCLAIMER: > > This communication being sent by ROHAN Group {ROHAN or its subsidiaries and associated companies including Rohan Builders (India) Pvt. Ltd.} is privileged and confidential, and is directed to and for the use of the addressee only. If this message reaches anyone other than the intended recipient, we request the reader not to reproduce, copy, disseminate or in any manner distribute it. We further request such recipient to notify us immediately by return email and delete the original message. ROHAN Group does not guarantee the security of any information transmitted electronically and is not liable for the proper, timely and complete transmission thereof. Before opening any attachments please check them for viruses and defects. > > --------------

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pratima_bose
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:52 am    Post subject: On 10th Anniversary of Bhuj Earthquake of 2001 Reply with quote

Dear Alpa,

Thanks for greetings.
I also reciprocate the same.You raised the right questions.SEFI is
doing good job by spreading the knowledge to young generation and
other professionals.I hope a day will come when we will be able to
achieve the goal of Disaster Resilient India.

Further it is to bring to your kind notice that today I forwarded a
token contribution to SEFI of Rs.5000/- only.

Thanks

with Regards
Pratima

On 1/25/11, admin <forum@sefindia.org> wrote:
Quote:
Dear All:

Heartiest greetings to all as we celebrate  Indias 61st anniversary as a
Republic. A Republic which is vibrant, diverse, and disarmingly democratic.
One that is  frought with problems yet  holds the promise of a bright
tomorrow for its  young, dynamic and never-say-die population.


Importantly, we remember this  day exactly a decade ago when more than 13800
people died in a cataclysmic earthquake in Kutch, Gujarat. It is an occasion
for us to reflect on how far we have come in earthquake safety of our built
environment since. Some good things have indeed come out of it.  Not the
least of which is the birth of SEFI on January 26, 2003. SEFI is,  like
India, vibrant, diverse,  democratic and holds great potential.

But when we scan our surrounds with a wide-angle lens, can we truly say we
are building a safer habitat today than we were ten years ago? In our rush
for building more, and faster are we missing out something? Is the
structural engineer designing better? Are the construction materials better?
Is the site engineer paying more attention to the quality of construction?
Is the supplier or the contractor? Is the client interested in good work?
In brief, have we improved in our competency and knowledge? And have we
become more honest and diligent,  have we more integrity than we did a
decade ago?

There are no easy answers to these questions. At the  country level, we are
grappling with the very same soul-searching that we are as an engineering
community. One only hopes that posterity will not look at us and judge us
harshly. One hopes that we have made some small contributions to the built
habitat that speak well of what we have achieved.

Let us once again dedicate ourselves to the pursuit of good engineering- be
it design or construction. In a world where it is so easy to get carried
away by the current practice of engineering  which involves aggressive
marketing and savvy business sense rather than engineering skills  and where
success is defined by the number of projects you handle and the money you
make, let us listen to the still,  inner voice within us which cajoles us to
do it right and derive joy in a job well done even if no one else notices
it.

Thank you and regards,


Alpa Sheth
Admin SEFI








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